Roles, Power Sources, & PHB1 Classes

[Felon]

To me, this seems like a very elegant solution that lines up with the PHB1's function as the foundation of the game. It offers something for everyone right out of the gate.

It's fascinating to see how people's minds lock on to symmetry. Symmetry is elegant, but it's hardly necessary.

If we *never* get a martial controller or an arcane defender, where's the harm?

 

[Dragonblade]

I think some sort of archer class, would make a great martial controller class. I know the ranger is also sort of a bowman, but it's tied too closely to "nature". Need something not necessarily divine.

 

[Jer]

It's fascinating to see how people's minds lock on to symmetry. Symmetry is elegant, but it's hardly necessary.

If we *never* get a martial controller or an arcane defender, where's the harm?

The need to "fill in the slots" is one of the things that has always annoyed me about D&D design, actually. "There are four elements, we need genies for each element! There are nine alignments, we need Outer Planar beings for each alignment!" Bah.

Having said that - I'd like to see what a creative designer could come up with to fill a "martial controller" class. Not because I want to see all of the slots filled, but because I just have no idea where to start with something like that given what we've heard about the controller role so far.

 

[Gloombunny]

the Druid is a Leader

I don't want to start that argument up again, but I feel compelled to point out that many people on this forum have looked at the same sources as breschau and don't think they constitute confirmation of the druid's role.

 

[Gloombunny]

The 3e PHBII Knight? Their threated area is difficult terrain for opponents and they can force certain opponents to fight them. That seems like a decent start for a martial controller.

Dude, the knight is absolutely and in every way a defender. His whole raison d'etre is to be the meatshield, to get monsters to attack him instead of the wizard. That's the very definition of the defender role. (The part where the knight isn't very good at dealing damage will hopefully not be an intrinsic part of the defender role in 4e.)

His abilities may seem like control, but really... if you can only control enemies in melee range of you, and you can only control them into attacking your heavily-armored butt or otherwise not hitting the soft-target PCs... then you're a defender, not a controller.

 

[Oldtimer]

The "8 classes" source was Logan Bonner.

Have you got a link to go with that? I looked through all of Logan's posts on the WotC forum, but couldn't find it.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Have you got a link to go with that? I looked through all of Logan's posts on the WotC forum, but couldn't find it.

That's cause they were posted on ENWorld: Logan Bonner Says 8 Classes in PHB1 and He Says That We'll Eventually See All 3.5 PHB Classes.

I found these by going to the Unofficial Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Info Page - also on ENWorld.

 

[Branduil]

Yeah, most of the ideas for martial controllers I've seen just look like defenders. I'm not even sure how you'd make a martial controller, since the idea of a controller is to control both the enemies and the environment of the battlefield. Making a class that can do that without magical abilities seems awkward at best, and dubious from a flavor standpoint.

I don't know, maybe a class that can do things like punching the ground real hard and causing earthquakes, or massive whirlwind attacks? Thinking about it, a heavily modified monk-type class might be best suited for controller. Though I'd prefer a more western flavor. Heh, maybe he can have a giant boomerang that travels around the battlefield.

 

[Thundershield]

Yeah, most of the ideas for martial controllers I've seen just look like defenders. I'm not even sure how you'd make a martial controller, since the idea of a controller is to control both the enemies and the environment of the battlefield. Making a class that can do that without magical abilities seems awkward at best, and dubious from a flavor standpoint.

I don't know, maybe a class that can do things like punching the ground real hard and causing earthquakes, or massive whirlwind attacks? Thinking about it, a heavily modified monk-type class might be best suited for controller. Though I'd prefer a more western flavor. Heh, maybe he can have a giant boomerang that travels around the battlefield.

Or a knife-thrower of unsurpassed skill, throwing knives to disarm foes, blind them, pin them to the ground or environment, or similar. Could also be an archer or someone with a chain or similar weapon (although a chain or such would have a harder time pinning multiple foes).

It's an idea that's been juggled ever since geeks started filling out the blanks in the Role vs. Type matrix. No, there aren't necessarily any Martial Controllers, or Divine Strikers. We might see some eventually, but for now they're focusing on taking the "classic" and "popular" classes and simply trying to define their type and role. If there's a need to "fill out the blanks", they'll get around to it.

 

[Arkhandus]

Examples:
Stunning melee attacks (including shield bashes, head clonks etc.)
Shield-rushes/Bull-rushes (better than the normal kind, i.e. more powerful/reliable.)
Exceptional tripping ability, trapping people on the ground.
Throwing rocks or weapons to interrupt spellcasting
Ranged AoOs due to exceptional combat awareness (even when not using a ranged weapon - again, throws rocks, daggers, etc.)
Throws/flips/moves enemies.
Chucks dirt/dust/powder in enemies eyes/faces.
Tricks enemies into overreaching (in a non-mind-control way).
Disarms, sunders, etc. better than normal melees.

Basically, you could just focus on all the utility/movement-control options available to melees, and upgrade them. Call him the Thug, or Mercenary, or Veteran, or whatever, cooler name you can come up with.

So.....a Gladiator class perhaps?

Just don't for god's bloody sake, give me a bloody freakin' MMORPG tank, with weak melee ability, and magickalelelelellee taunts that don't have a magical power source yet someone CONTROL MENS MINDS <makes hypnotoad noises>

Mind-control should be the province of magic and psionics, not martial.

Hehehe.... "First place goes to....the hypnotoad. All glory to the hypnotoad." - pet pageant judge, speaking in monotone
Futurama's great.

And consequently.......the same kinda thing you mention is exactly what I dislike about both the PHB2 Knight and the Rokugan Courtier; they get wierd, videogamey abilities to practically mind-control other creatures, nonmagically, in ways that dang well couldn't be mundane, just through talking or posture. Not even through pseudo-mundane/extraordinary-but-quasi-mystical ki channeling.