WotC Roll 4 Combat: Hasbro/WotC was offered 20 million for D&D at the nadir of 4e.

[Zardnaar]

I think D&D has the potential to make alot more money then that. Also remember the last D&D MtG set alone made a hundred million+ dollars.

The brand has vastly more value then just ttrpg products, with the right management.

Source in that $100 million? Is that revenue or profit?
The brand could also nake a lot less. It waxes and wanes.

Beyond could also be a bust.

I would rather drop 500+ million into luxury property in hot spots here than buy D&D for much more than that.

I wouldn't pay a billion for it.

 

[Zardnaar]

where does the ‘need’ come from and do they say how they arrive at the 500 or 700M?

It's just what they thought it was worth.

I tend to agree if I was using my own money. Opportunity cost at a billion for example there's other things I would rather invest in.

 

[Scribe]

It's not like D&D never did Universes Beyond like products, Diablo for example, Rick & Morty, Stranger Things, etc...

It's also because most of the D&D cards aren't universes beyond, they are reprintable cards, it tangles things up. There is also the possible the 2024 D&D books will make mention of MtG settings like Fizban's and Bigsbys did.

Right, but if you asked random people what D&D looks like, and what MTG looks like?

D&D is still really just FR/Planescape type stuff.

MTG was sold on each set having that well defined look, it was already jumping around all over the place with great world building each time.

Now? "How can we tank the market as fast as possible, who cares what it looks like."

 

[Zardnaar]

They are definitely low balling it, you have to factor in D&Beyond. Plus as others have mentioned, I just don't see splitting D&D and Magic at this point.

Beyond they said it might drag up the price to 750.

Base amount was 500.

 

[bedir than]

Beyond they said it might drag up the price to 750.

Base amount was 500.

Hasbro wouldn't sell D&D with four possible tv shows the movie long tail and multiple video game studios as well as a brand that's basically at 500 mill a year revenue for 500 mill.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hasbro wouldn't sell D&D with four possible tv shows the movie long tail and multiple video game studios as well as a brand that's basically at 500 mill a year revenue for 500 mill.

It's not at 500 million a year though.

The video used 150 million. They joked about WotC wanting 2-3 billion but guesstimate 500-750 milion.

 

[bedir than]

It's not at 500 million a year though.

The video used 150 million. They joked about WotC wanting 2-3 billion but guesstimate 500-750 milion.

It's over 500 mill in revenue a year, this year, using the public statements that are enforced by law.
Yes, that includes the movie and video games (only the Hasbro share of each), but that's what you get when you buy D&D.
D&D fans really have to stop considering themselves some sort of pathetic game played by nerds in a basement. The financial statements are real.

 

[Stormonu]

TBH, I think D&D is currently at its peak profitability. From what I've seen with other game systems I suspect 5.5 will bring a brief influx but we'll start to see a slow-down in popularity. I would not be surprised if in two years when you ask people about D&D they'll ask surprised, "that still exists?"

As for value, I wouldn't think D&D would be worth more than $500m right now, at most. The $20m offer sounds like something that would have come from NuTSR or the like as a public stunt to "get it out of the hands of those who are destroying D&D".

 

[Zardnaar]

It's over 500 mill in revenue a year, this year, using the public statements that are enforced by law.
Yes, that includes the movie and video games (only the Hasbro share of each), but that's what you get when you buy D&D.
D&D fans really have to stop considering themselves some sort of pathetic game played by nerds in a basement. The financial statements are real.

Thats not WotC money. You're counting Larian and Paramount. The movie was Worth-25 million to WotC tests a loss/tax write off.

Members of ENworld need to study accounting 101.

I'm looking at what the video used which was 150 million in revenue. If that's profit I would raise what I would be willing to pay by X2 or X3.

One woud need to look at the books which they would have to do if you had a legitimate bid to buy D&D.

I don't value Beyond at 150 million without looking at income, it's trajectory and its costs. That's 150 million WotC has flushed down the toilet without access to those books.

I wouldn't be willing to pay a billion for D&D just on opportunity cost on 150 million revenue. They only get around 25% of a books cover. Idk what the overhead on Beyond is vs income.

That revenue is also peak D&D. If it's down much I'm not paying a billion.

It's possible 500 million cash up front is more profit than 5E has generated in its entire ten year run (it only hit 100 million few years ago not 5E entire run).

I woukd want 8-10% return on my billion dollars. That means D&D would need to generate 80-100 million profit for a billion dollar bid. For me at least.

Otherwise I would invest that billion elsewhere. To invest more I would really need to look at the exact income to offset the rusk essentially I'm gambling on future profits to pay more.

 

[Zardnaar]

TBH, I think D&D is currently at its peak profitability. From what I've seen with other game systems I suspect 5.5 will bring a brief influx but we'll start to see a slow-down in popularity. I would not be surprised if in two years when you ask people about D&D they'll ask surprised, "that still exists?"

As for value, I wouldn't think D&D would be worth more than $500m right now, at most. The $20m offer sounds like something that would have come from NuTSR or the like as a public stunt to "get it out of the hands of those who are destroying D&D".

Just watched a video about the follow up to Art and Arcana.

Apparently 3 to 60 million players from the ashes of 4E. Their words.

That indicates they lost half the player base.

I consider 20 million a lowball offer but it's not completely out of left field.