Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
You need to read Forward, then.
Science Fiction vs. Science Fantasy
You need to read Forward, then.
Ben Bova's Grand Tour novels are pretty good hard Sci-Fi about humanity's expansion into the rest of the solar system.
Orius
Legend
I'd count Star Trek as science fiction rather than science fantasy because Trek's tech and universe is presented in a more or less "scientific" fashion. (Yes, sometimes they get the science wrong. Badly wrong.) Sure, some elements of the setting are things like FTL travel which are generally considered impossible under our current understanding of scientific laws, but it's never presented as anything magical. It's everyday technology that people more or less understand, and guys like Scotty and Geordi aren't wizards (miracle worker claims nonwithstanding). Even when Q shows up, he's not seen as a god, but just a highly evolved lifeform, no matter what he claims (though possibly he was just trolling Picard again).
Now compare that to Star Wars, where we basically have wizards that use glowing laser swords made of pure awesome. That's fantasy. Star Wars rarely tries to be even remotely scientific. Though that might be a hidden strength. Unlike hard sci-fi, it doesn't have to worry about being completely disproven by some scientific discovery a few years down the road.
Now compare that to Star Wars, where we basically have wizards that use glowing laser swords made of pure awesome. That's fantasy. Star Wars rarely tries to be even remotely scientific. Though that might be a hidden strength. Unlike hard sci-fi, it doesn't have to worry about being completely disproven by some scientific discovery a few years down the road.
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
Thinking just of movies/TV at the moment, some Science Fiction that leaps to mind:
Gattaca
Colossus: The Forbin Project
The Andromeda Strain\
Jurassic Park
Dr. Strangelove
Brainstorm
Planet of the Apes (1968)
Minority Report
Star Trek (original series)
Star Trek Next Generation (at least some of it...)
Forbidden Planet
20,000 leagues Under the Sea
Deep Impact
The Abyss
The Day the Earth Stood Still (maybe)
...even cheese like...
When Worlds Collide
SF (to me anyway) doesn't necessarily have to be a direct examination of science or technology extended into the future or some alternate milieu, but it generally should be trying to SAY something using scientific or technological ideas and objects to get its points across. Many (not all!) of the original series ST episodes thus qualify as they are examinations of contemporaneous issues of race, class, politics... the human condition. They do so by framing those issues in science fiction terms enabling open commentary on, say, racial injustice on prime time TV when without such fictional framing it would be exceptionally controversial.
Science Fantasy I think tends to be more adventure tales or drama which uses SF trappings:
Star Wars (though Episode IV is debatable)
Star Trek DS9, Voyager, et.al.
Flash Gordon
Buck Rogers
Battlestar Galactica (original series anyway)
This Island Earth
Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Stargate
The Day After Tomorrow (wanted to be SF - definitely wasn't)
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Gattaca
Colossus: The Forbin Project
The Andromeda Strain\
Jurassic Park
Dr. Strangelove
Brainstorm
Planet of the Apes (1968)
Minority Report
Star Trek (original series)
Star Trek Next Generation (at least some of it...)
Forbidden Planet
20,000 leagues Under the Sea
Deep Impact
The Abyss
The Day the Earth Stood Still (maybe)
...even cheese like...
When Worlds Collide
SF (to me anyway) doesn't necessarily have to be a direct examination of science or technology extended into the future or some alternate milieu, but it generally should be trying to SAY something using scientific or technological ideas and objects to get its points across. Many (not all!) of the original series ST episodes thus qualify as they are examinations of contemporaneous issues of race, class, politics... the human condition. They do so by framing those issues in science fiction terms enabling open commentary on, say, racial injustice on prime time TV when without such fictional framing it would be exceptionally controversial.
Science Fantasy I think tends to be more adventure tales or drama which uses SF trappings:
Star Wars (though Episode IV is debatable)
Star Trek DS9, Voyager, et.al.
Flash Gordon
Buck Rogers
Battlestar Galactica (original series anyway)
This Island Earth
Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Stargate
The Day After Tomorrow (wanted to be SF - definitely wasn't)
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Nellisir
Hero
Not really, but I'm going to check my shelves and see.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
I'd disagree with a characterization of Star Trek as science fiction. Just because it cloaks its magic in the appearance of technobabble doesn't make it any less fantastic than Star Wars. Whether using the force or using a transported, creating midicholrians or transparent aluminum, both series are trying to put a future-tech sheen on what is essentially magic, and the stories they tell aren't really about the science anyway. Trek has the huge problem of being internally inconsistent, and to maintain the appearance of consistency has to invent new technobabble every few episodes (TOS wasn't so bad for this, but TNG was horrible). Star Wars -- at least the original trilogy -- didn't try to provide explanations, but then Lucas had to go all midichlorian on us ...
Mark CMG
Creative Mountain Games
Just for my own clarification, would Outland versus Total Recall be good examples of Science Fiction versus Science Fantasy?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082869/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100802/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082869/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100802/
Nellisir
Hero
Magic breaks the laws of physics. That. at least to me, is the definition of magic. Doing that which is impossible. Not circumventing it, but literally doing the impossible. Star Trek breaks the laws of physics with warp drive and time-travel, and does so repeatedly - it's a major point in many episodes. "Look how hard we can break the laws of the universe!"
Other red flags: Interbreeding with alien species. Eating alien life forms in any way shape or form. Surviving interstellar travel without radiation shielding. Travelling at close to light speed without considering consequences.
The best handling I've seen of this is in CJ Cherryh's sf novels. FTL works via "hyperspace", thus circumventing the laws of physics, but ships emerge at a significant percentage of the speed of light. Combat involves taking rocks through jumpspace because the closer to light speed the rock is, the less time the enemy has to react (in the ideal situation, the rock travels at the same speed or a fraction of a second slower than the information about the rock). And maneuvering takes a considerable amount of distance.
Science fiction, might circumvent the laws of physics, but acknowledges that it does so, or at least doesn't make it a major feature. There are science stories (Asimov) that take advantage of those laws to tell a story, and there are others that use them as a framing device or constraint or backdrop. I've been reading the works of Alastair Reynolds, and Wikipedia has this to say: "His works are hard science fiction veiled behind space opera and noir toned stories, and reflect his professional expertise with physics and astronomy (he's an astrophysicist, and worked for the European Space Agency until 2004), included by extrapolating future technologies in terms that are consistent, for the most part, with current science. Reynolds has said he prefers to keep the science in his books to what he personally believes will be possible, and he does not believe faster-than-light travel will ever be possible, but that he adopts science he believes will be impossible when it is necessary for the story."
In his primary universe, Revelation Space... " ...extraterrestrial sentience exists but is elusive, and interstellar travel is primarily undertaken by a class of vessel called a lighthugger which only approaches the speed of light (faster than light travel is possible, but it is so dangerous that no race uses it).
To be honest, I didn't follow the FTL explanations. It's weird quantum foam stuff involving at least 4 different phases, #3 of which permanently converts you into luminal energy, and #4 of which goes super-luminal, but is frighteningly unstable (turns out it's bad if some of your particles go super-luminal and some don't).
Other red flags: Interbreeding with alien species. Eating alien life forms in any way shape or form. Surviving interstellar travel without radiation shielding. Travelling at close to light speed without considering consequences.
The best handling I've seen of this is in CJ Cherryh's sf novels. FTL works via "hyperspace", thus circumventing the laws of physics, but ships emerge at a significant percentage of the speed of light. Combat involves taking rocks through jumpspace because the closer to light speed the rock is, the less time the enemy has to react (in the ideal situation, the rock travels at the same speed or a fraction of a second slower than the information about the rock). And maneuvering takes a considerable amount of distance.
Science fiction, might circumvent the laws of physics, but acknowledges that it does so, or at least doesn't make it a major feature. There are science stories (Asimov) that take advantage of those laws to tell a story, and there are others that use them as a framing device or constraint or backdrop. I've been reading the works of Alastair Reynolds, and Wikipedia has this to say: "His works are hard science fiction veiled behind space opera and noir toned stories, and reflect his professional expertise with physics and astronomy (he's an astrophysicist, and worked for the European Space Agency until 2004), included by extrapolating future technologies in terms that are consistent, for the most part, with current science. Reynolds has said he prefers to keep the science in his books to what he personally believes will be possible, and he does not believe faster-than-light travel will ever be possible, but that he adopts science he believes will be impossible when it is necessary for the story."
In his primary universe, Revelation Space... " ...extraterrestrial sentience exists but is elusive, and interstellar travel is primarily undertaken by a class of vessel called a lighthugger which only approaches the speed of light (faster than light travel is possible, but it is so dangerous that no race uses it).
To be honest, I didn't follow the FTL explanations. It's weird quantum foam stuff involving at least 4 different phases, #3 of which permanently converts you into luminal energy, and #4 of which goes super-luminal, but is frighteningly unstable (turns out it's bad if some of your particles go super-luminal and some don't).
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