Sneaky Mage: Party Role and Optimization

[szilard]

I suppose I could run a Beguiler and just throw a lot of Dispel Magics at enemy casters. It would achieve a similar effect.

...or Silence, Zone of Silence, Touch of Idiocy, or Feeblemind.

-Stuart

 

[moritheil]

...or Silence, Zone of Silence, Touch of Idiocy, or Feeblemind.

-Stuart

Well, I was referring to Dispel Magic as the exact parallel to Steal Spell Effect, but now that you mention it, situationally useful spells such as those are better when you don't have to prepare spells.

I think what I am going to do is look at Beguiler as a way to lessen MAD, which quite frankly is absolutely terrible for the character with the existing setup. With that, I can take a Whisper Gnome.

Thanks, everyone!

Now, do you have any suggestions about ranged vs. melee for a sneaky character?

 

[szilard]

Now, do you have any suggestions about ranged vs. melee for a sneaky character?

Personally, I'd favor ranged. You want to stay out of melee for more than a couple reasons:

• Mediocre at best AC and HP. You're certainly not a tank.
• Spellcasting. You want to avoid unnecessary concentration checks and AoOs.
• Undead. Few of your spells will work with them, so you may need to resort to a weapon. You generally don't want them to touch you, so stay out of melee.
• Sniping + Illusions can be fun.

-Stuart

 

[moritheil]

Personally, I'd favor ranged. You want to stay out of melee for more than a couple reasons:

• Mediocre at best AC and HP. You're certainly not a tank.
• Spellcasting. You want to avoid unnecessary concentration checks and AoOs.
• Undead. Few of your spells will work with them, so you may need to resort to a weapon. You generally don't want them to touch you, so stay out of melee.
• Sniping + Illusions can be fun.

-Stuart

I was also thinking that there is synergy between sniping and illusions. Since I'm not relying on feint, then, I can dump Cha. How does this look for a crossbow build?

ABILITY SCORES: 28 Point Buy: 0+10+6+10+2+0
Str 6 (-2) (8/base -2/rac)
Dex 18 (+4) (16/base 2/rac)
Con 16 (+3) (14/base 2/rac)
Int 16 (+3) (16/base)
Wis 10 (+0) (10/base)
Cha 6 (-2) (8/base -2/rac)

SAVES
FORT +5 (2/beg 3/con)
REF +6 (2/beg 4/dex)
WILL +5 (5/beg)

 

[szilard]

The one problem with dumping Charisma is that you're giving up on Use Magic Device... which seems silly given the absurd number of skill points you'll have. Your call, though.

Also, as for a magic weapon, I'd consider something that works well against undead and constructs (which you'll be weak against spell-wise).

-Stuart

 

[szilard]

Also, don't forget that you have an ability score point from 4th level.

-Stuart

 

[moritheil]

The one problem with dumping Charisma is that you're giving up on Use Magic Device... which seems silly given the absurd number of skill points you'll have. Your call, though.

Also, as for a magic weapon, I'd consider something that works well against undead and constructs (which you'll be weak against spell-wise).

-Stuart

Skill-wise, I need to max five skills to fill the "sneaky" role: Search, Spot, Listen, Hide, and Move Silently. Add in a sixth if I am the trapfinder. Then there are three standard caster skills: Concentration, Know (arcana), and Spellcraft.

I have only 72 skill points, which are entirely eaten up by those 9 skills. I can spare some points from Knowledge and Spellcraft to instead take Sleight of Hand and the spell trick to disguise casting, but I don't really see any room for UMD. Also, since I should be the party silencer, Spellcraft is absolutely essential, so I don't really want to skimp on it.

Oh, and I'm not sure where the points for Tumble will come from, but that should ideally be maxed as well. I suppose as a Whisper Gnome I could dump Move Silently . . . and if I wanted to rely on Invisibility, I could dump Hide.

 

[szilard]

Skill-wise, I need to max five skills to fill the "sneaky" role: Search, Spot, Listen, Hide, and Move Silently. Add in a sixth if I am the trapfinder. Then there are three standard caster skills: Concentration, Know (arcana), and Spellcraft.

I have only 72 skill points, which are entirely eaten up by those 9 skills. I can spare some points from Knowledge and Spellcraft to instead take Sleight of Hand and the spell trick to disguise casting, but I don't really see any room for UMD. Also, since I should be the party silencer, Spellcraft is absolutely essential, so I don't really want to skimp on it.

Except that Beguilers can cheat on the sneaky stuff, so they don't really need to fully max them all.

Search, Spot, Listen: Detect Magic. Detect Secret Doors. See Invisibility. Detect Thoughts. Clairvoyance/Clairaudience. Locate Creature. Arcane Sight. True Seeing.

Hide, Move Silently: Disguise Self. Obscuring Mist. Invisibility. Silence. Spider Climb. Crown of Veils.... plus illusions as cover/distraction.

-Stuart

 

[moritheil]

Question: Would you say that a Beguiler with maxed out stealth skills and sleight of hand is useful to a party in a traditional campaign? It would be a fantastic retrieval agent ("Please make a DC 40 spot check to see my invisible, hiding character") but I'm not sure if that would be a good way to play.

 

[szilard]

Question: Would you say that a Beguiler with maxed out stealth skills and sleight of hand is useful to a party in a traditional campaign? It would be a fantastic retrieval agent ("Please make a DC 40 spot check to see my invisible, hiding character") but I'm not sure if that would be a good way to play.

Useful?

Sure. Realize also that the Beguiler gets some great movement-related spells on their spell list, which enhances this sort of character.

A lot of it will depend on your campaign, though. I'd probably build a Beguiler with good (but not maxed) stealth skills (and go for more breadth in skills) realizing that in a pinch, I could rely on spells.

-Stuart