Sneaky Mage: Party Role and Optimization

[Shayuri]

I'm still interested in the Invasion game, btw. I'll post to the thread when I have a chance.

As for Beguiler...you live and die by your DC's. More than most casters.

Put the 18 in Intelligence. You'll thank me later.

Beguilers have light armor and d6HD, so it's tempting to think of them as magerogues. They really aren't though. They're mages...who can be roguey. Rely on spells first, skills second, whenever possible.

This is my suggestion.

 

[moritheil]

I'm still interested in the Invasion game, btw. I'll post to the thread when I have a chance.

As for Beguiler...you live and die by your DC's. More than most casters.

Put the 18 in Intelligence. You'll thank me later.

Beguilers have light armor and d6HD, so it's tempting to think of them as magerogues. They really aren't though. They're mages...who can be roguey. Rely on spells first, skills second, whenever possible.

This is my suggestion.

Sounds good! Then we have:

ABILITY SCORES: 28 Point Buy: 0+4+6+16+2+0
Str 6 (-2) (8/base -2/rac)
Dex 14 (+2) (12/base 2/rac)
Con 16 (+3) (14/base 2/rac)
Int 19 (+4) (18/base 1/bon)
Wis 10 (+0) (10/base)
Cha 6 (-2) (8/base -2/rac)

SAVES
FORT +5 (2/beg 3/con)
REF +4 (2/beg 2/dex)
WILL +5 (5/beg)

Regarding dumping skills, I just realized that if I put 0 points in Hide I'd still have a +10 (!) to it. (+4 for size, +4 racial, +2 dex)

 

[castro3nw]

If you have to spend 20k in one place, and can use magic item compendium guidelines... maybe combine a 4k item with a +4 INT item in the correct body slot?

Interesting options include a circlet of persuasion to help out with the UMD and feinting.. a mask of lies to help with bluff and have a few extra uses of disguise self (dunno how useful its undetectable alignment would be) or maybe a mask of silent trickery, to leave out verbal componants in a few illusion/enchantment spells a day. good for those times when ya just silenced an area...

Basically you'd get +2 to your save DC's, maybe a couple more spells.. and some wacky extra effect.

Also, if you start with a 17 int, you don't have to dump cha so hard and can get that 18 with the point at level 4. Though, I'm not sure it's worth it just to get less of a penalty.

 

[Slaved]

Taking a level of Mindbender at level 6 is a really good idea for a Beguiler who is focused on operating independently. You will lose some skill points but gain a boost to some saving throws and Telepathy!

Also, taking up levels in Shadowcraft Mage later on can be very helpful! Your illusions lose their verbal requirements, you can cloak yourself in shadows gaining concealment whenever you like, and you gain an incredible amount of versitility with your illusion spells allowing you to deal with many more situations!

Too bad the amount of money you are supposed to spend is not higher though, you could have gotten a Runestaff of Power! It would be perfect for you if only you could get it. Maybe there is a way to turn it into a Relic item.

If you can treat an entire Item Set as a single item for that purpose then you might want to look at The Raiment of the Four. It would be great for you! Toss on a couple of extra minor abilities to kick it up above 20000 and you are good to go!

 

[moritheil]

Taking a level of Mindbender at level 6 is a really good idea for a Beguiler who is focused on operating independently. You will lose some skill points but gain a boost to some saving throws and Telepathy!

Also, taking up levels in Shadowcraft Mage later on can be very helpful! Your illusions lose their verbal requirements, you can cloak yourself in shadows gaining concealment whenever you like, and you gain an incredible amount of versitility with your illusion spells allowing you to deal with many more situations!

Too bad the amount of money you are supposed to spend is not higher though, you could have gotten a Runestaff of Power! It would be perfect for you if only you could get it. Maybe there is a way to turn it into a Relic item.

If you can treat an entire Item Set as a single item for that purpose then you might want to look at The Raiment of the Four. It would be great for you! Toss on a couple of extra minor abilities to kick it up above 20000 and you are good to go!

Where is the Runestaff of Power from?

EDIT: it costs 35k . . . and the Runestaff of Transmutation is 25k! So close!

The Runestaff of Transmutation (MIC) would be *just* right--exactly 25k gp, IIRC, and lets you spontaneously cast Alter Self, Blink, Baleful Polymorph, Expeditious Retreat, Stone Shape, and Disintegrate (all 2/day).

The campaign will only run to level 9, which IIRC is just the beginning of the Shadowcraft mage PrC in the beguiler build made for it.

Also, if you start with a 17 int, you don't have to dump cha so hard and can get that 18 with the point at level 4. Though, I'm not sure it's worth it just to get less of a penalty.

I need to start with the 18 to have the extra skill points.

It's really hard to UMD when almost all your gold has to go into one item.


EDIT: I found Raiment of the Four.

"Raiment of Four" item set in the MIC: it lets you spontaneously cast Magic Missile and Fireball 3/day, and Freedom of Movement and Teleport 2/day, plus other minor benefits, plus benefits for wearing the whole set, for a total four-item cost of 8k + 6k + 4k + 1k = 19k gp.

But I also like the Umbral Collar:

22k will give me a continuous collar of umbral metamorphosis: +8 hide, +6 move silently, +10 ft move speed, cold resistance 10, superior low light vision and darkvision 60 ft. If I take one of those and max my sneaking skills I pretty much won't need armor, because it will be impossible for anything to see me coming or going.

There's also the Paralyzing Crossbow, at 18k.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Slaved]

If you go for the Umbral Collar watch out for Dismissal spells!

 

[moritheil]

If you go for the Umbral Collar watch out for Dismissal spells!

I think your plane of origin remains the Prime Material Plane . . . but at level 5, I sure hope our enemies aren't packing Dismissal.

 

[eamon]

Runestaffs: By expending a prepared arcane spell or arcane spell slot, the wielder can cast a spell of the same level or lower from the runestaffs list, as long as that spell also appears on the wielder's class spell list.

Runestaffs are very attractive to a sorcerer, and useless to a beguiler.

I don't understand how you can have too few skill points. You realize that with 18 int, that's 10 maxxed out skills?

Spot, Listen, Concentration, Escape Artist, Tumble, Search are probably the only ones worth maxxing out (and you can take UMD at high levels when it becomes useful, maybe - no point in taking it initially, esp. with such a low charisma).

Don't bother with many ranks in hide - you'll be good at that anyhow, esp. with invis. Move Silently is more relevant (and silent spell for free, yay!)

Shadow Conjuration and Shadow evocation mean that you'll never have a problem dealing damage later on. Early on, you'll be fine using the various whelms.

You won't be quite as powerful as a truly flexible spellcaster, but you'll have an insane amount of skill points, and certain powerful abilities (like wearing armor and getting free metamagic feats, and a huge spontaneous list) to cope just fine. Spells like greater mirror image really do wonders if the campaign is "too hard".

What you really want to do is boost your intelligence sky high, at all costs, since it boosts your skills, your save DC's, and your spells per day.

It's underpowered, but for ultimate flexibility, you can consider the PrC ultimate magus...

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Can't a beguiler use RuneStaffs via his UMD skill?

I think the beguiler is one of the very best classes for punching above his belt. Many monsters of relatively high CR have poor will saves, and Glitterdust will ruin them. It even works against Undead, which are typically the Beguiler's bane.

Ken

 

[moritheil]

Runestaffs are very attractive to a sorcerer, and useless to a beguiler.

Ah, thanks.

I don't understand how you can have too few skill points. You realize that with 18 int, that's 10 maxxed out skills?

I always have too few skills when I try to build characters. Here's the current roster:

SKILLS 10*8 = 80
Bluff +5 (5 ranks 0 cha)
Concentration +8 (5 ranks 3 con)
Diplomacy +6 (4 ranks 0 cha 2 bluff)
Disable Device +13 (8 ranks 3 int 2 circ)
Disguise +2 (0 ranks 0 cha 2 bluff)
Hide +18 (1 ranks 1 dex 4 gnome 4 size 8 dark)
Intimidate +6 (4 ranks 0 cha 2 bluff)
Know (Arcana) +8 (5 ranks 3 int)
Know (Local) +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Listen +9 (8 ranks -1 wis 2 gnome)
Move Silently +15 (4 ranks 1 dex 4 gnome 6 dark)
Search +10 (7 ranks 3 int)
Sense Motive +3 (4 ranks -1 wis)
Sleight of Hand +12 (8 ranks 2 dex 2 bluff)
Spellcraft +10 (5 ranks 3 int 2 ka)
Spot +9 (8 ranks -1 wis 2 gnome)
Tumble +2 (1 ranks 1 dex)
Use Rope +1 (0 ranks 1 dex)
Use Magic Device +0 (0 ranks 0 cha)

Tricks: 2 pts
Conceal Spellcasting (Sleight of hand disguises spellcasting; no AOOs etc.)

I want Mindbender at 6th, so I have a bunch of random social skills at rank 4 or 5.

Don't bother with many ranks in hide - you'll be good at that anyhow, esp. with invis. Move Silently is more relevant (and silent spell for free, yay!)

I was thinking I could snipe if I had a good hide modifier and remain hidden for most battles. It's a -20, so I was going to try to get +28 or so. I didn't have the points, though.

Shadow Conjuration and Shadow evocation mean that you'll never have a problem dealing damage later on. Early on, you'll be fine using the various whelms.

You won't be quite as powerful as a truly flexible spellcaster, but you'll have an insane amount of skill points, and certain powerful abilities (like wearing armor and getting free metamagic feats, and a huge spontaneous list) to cope just fine. Spells like greater mirror image really do wonders if the campaign is "too hard".

Point taken.

What you really want to do is boost your intelligence sky high, at all costs, since it boosts your skills, your save DC's, and your spells per day.

Everyone keeps saying this, so I took Shadow Weave Magic as well. Thanks for your help!