D&D 5E So what's the scoop on D&D in PDF Format?

[MNblockhead]

Pdf still seems more accessible.

Much more. But a PDF is just a PDF. I don't like to READ lengthy text in a VTT like Foundry. But it is nice to have quick lookups and cross linked content. If running games remotely it is very helpful to have the content all in the VTT, especially for more crunchy games. It is worth buying the content twice in my opinion. At the same time, that is the only reason to buy the content for a VTT. They are terrible as e-readers.

 

[MNblockhead]

One of the things that really needs to happen is a VTT standard format. It is not pro-consumer for me to have to buy my D&D books again if I switch from Fantasy Grounds to Foundry, or whatever.

I don't think what you are looking for is a standard format. I mean, JSON is kinda a standard format in that many of these system export out and import JSON but you need tools or programming knowledge to migrate that content. But that is really only practical for the text content and perhaps images. Maps are a whole different can of worms as support features and how those features are implemented vary greatly. Further, I don't want to hamper innovation in the VTT market. I don't want content I buy for foundry limited by the capabilities of another VTT. I want content I buy for Foundry to optimized for the platform.

Instead, I think what makes more sense is for publisher marketplaces to handle this. I believe that Paizo does this to some extent. Basically, if you have a license key or order number from a product, you can download it in another format for free or at a discounted rate. But I don't know how this will work with cross-VTT support. It is not trivial to get content into a VTT and in some cases it is the VTT company that does all the work at the conversion. They are want to get paid or there is less incentive for them to do so.

I'm all for getting the PDF free if I buy the physical book or bundling VTT purchases. But I do not at all want to hamper innovation and competition in the VTT market by trying to force some standard format.

 

[MNblockhead]

You can't read a PDF outside of a PDF reader.

Yes you can.

The preview pane in every file manager I use will display the PDF (Mac Finder, Windows Explorer, and Google Drive).

Preview, which comes installed on every Mac computer is an excellent PDF viewer with a lot of editing and markup features.

Most Web browsers will display PDFs and are increasingly the default PDF readers for many people. Actually, I find it annoying how when I download PDFs they keep opening in my browser instead of Acrobat. Seems like I have to keep revisiting my OS and browser settings to fight that.

There are MANY PDF viewers and editors available, including open source options.

Many e-reader devices and software support PDF.

You have more options for reading and interacting with PDFs than almost any other file format other than TXT.

Yes, there are lots of apps that have PDF reading capability.

Exactly.

Tell me how I'm going to easily access my Warhammer Fantasy content in Foundry outside of Foundry without a lot of time and effort to convert it. Ignoring prepped maps completely, as that is not content from the physical books, I can export journal articles to HTML. I can export character sheets, NPCs, items, spells, etc. to JSON. How do I piece that all together into readable book-like format? Migrating that into another VTT platform will take coding work. And I'm sure that as the Foundry modding community comes up with clever solutions, IP owners are going to require Foundry to add measure to counter that.

The only way the ensure my foundry content remains available long into the future, for a reasonable amount of effort, would be to keep installation files from different versions and backups of my content. And if the company ever goes out of business, or bought, and support ends for the product, then to make a VM of the then-current operating system and installed software, with my content, to ensure I can continue to run the software over the years. How many consumer want to even deal with that?

And this isn't a far-fetched scenario. Already, you have to be careful to back everything up when Foundry has a major upgrade. Even if you don't use any mods (which make things more complicated), upgrades can still break purchased content.

Any one of the current "big" VTT companies could easily go out of business and see support of their product end.

Adobe could go out of business but you'll still have plenty of free and commercial options to access your PDFs.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The preview pane in every file manager I use will display the PDF

That's because your web browser incorporates a PDF reader. Along with readers for the various image formats, and a bunch of other things.

 

[cbwjm]

The PDF format is very transferable, the fact that browsers will act as readers is great, I don't think you have the same ability with epub formats (though granted I've never tried reading them with a browser). In this day and age though, it isn't difficult to find a free reader. I use Google's play books as my e-reader which works okay, but sometimes wouldn't load my library of, maybe a dozen, books.

 

[Reynard]

I don't think what you are looking for is a standard format. I mean, JSON is kinda a standard format in that many of these system export out and import JSON but you need tools or programming knowledge to migrate that content. But that is really only practical for the text content and perhaps images. Maps are a whole different can of worms as support features and how those features are implemented vary greatly. Further, I don't want to hamper innovation in the VTT market. I don't want content I buy for foundry limited by the capabilities of another VTT. I want content I buy for Foundry to optimized for the platform.

Instead, I think what makes more sense is for publisher marketplaces to handle this. I believe that Paizo does this to some extent. Basically, if you have a license key or order number from a product, you can download it in another format for free or at a discounted rate. But I don't know how this will work with cross-VTT support. It is not trivial to get content into a VTT and in some cases it is the VTT company that does all the work at the conversion. They are want to get paid or there is less incentive for them to do so.

I'm all for getting the PDF free if I buy the physical book or bundling VTT purchases. But I do not at all want to hamper innovation and competition in the VTT market by trying to force some standard format.

I agree that VTT companies deserve to get paid for what they provide, which is above and beyond just electronic access to the materials. Paizo's solution is actually a good one, especially when you couple it with their subscription model (which provides the PDF for free, but still counts toward the discount).

I just get frustrated having to buy things multiple times, and for a game like 5E where there are a number of necessary books, it is basically cost prohibitive to switch VTTs. I'm trapped in FG for 5E.

 

[Wolfpack48]

That's because your web browser incorporates a PDF reader. Along with readers for the various image formats, and a bunch of other things.

I've found the one in Edge to be pretty good though not hugely full featured. It's good enough for reading.

 

[Wolfpack48]

In Acrobat you can kind of do this but it is wonky. First, you can go to Window-->Split View. This will give you a split view in the same window. That does what you want, except the split is horizontal. Which isn't ideal.

View attachment 356551
You can play around with the "spreadsheet" split view as well, which will give you four panes in the same window. I've seen recommendations to use the spreadsheet view and drag the horizontal muntin all the way to the top to get a vertical split. But then the vertical scroll is synchronized. You can't scroll independently as you can with the horizontal split. So, I never use this option.

Instead, I just open the same document in a new window and tile the two windows side by side.

View attachment 356552

Yeah, I've been using the two apps side by side (or two tabs in the browsers), it's just kinda clunky. A vertical version of the first example would be perfect.

 

[LordEntrails]

Buying material dependent on the ongoing existence of a company and ongoing compatibility of an app is, by definition, impermanent. I can't figure out why you are lobbying otherwise, but it is easily demonstrable that you are wrong.

I already told you 2 of the 3 ways for how FG content is not dependent upon the company remaining operating. So you are wrong, not me.

Exporting that content and converting for use in other formats is difficult for non-technical people and take a lot of effort even from technical people.

Not in FG. It is simple, but tedious. No formatting the output is much more challenging if you want to develop your own style sheet. But the content exportable in a simple format or plain text if desired.

Is there a method for reading either of these permanent documents without going online to access Fantasy Grounds and/or Foundry? Because unreadable permanent documents are no good to anybody.

Serious question, as I don't actually know.

Yes. Both can be used/read/accessed offline but within their apps. Both reside local to the users computer (unless you chose otherwise).

Pdf still seems more accessible.

More accessible, less functional.

There are MANY PDF viewers and editors available, including open source options.

Yep, just like I said (and you say below the quote). And all those ways of viewing a PDF you mentioned are applications with built in PDF readers.

Tell me how I'm going to easily access my Warhammer Fantasy content in Foundry outside of Foundry

No idea. I don't use Foundry. But I can tell you how to do it with FG with tools provided by FG. Admittedly it is tedious, but it is simple.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I already told you 2 of the 3 ways for how FG content is not dependent upon the company remaining operating. So you are wrong, not me.

Not in FG. It is simple, but tedious. No formatting the output is much more challenging if you want to develop your own style sheet. But the content exportable in a simple format or plain text if desired.

Yes. Both can be used/read/accessed offline but within their apps. Both reside local to the users computer (unless you chose otherwise).

More accessible, less functional.

Yep, just like I said (and you say below the quote). And all those ways of viewing a PDF you mentioned are applications with built in PDF readers.

No idea. I don't use Foundry. But I can tell you how to do it with FG with tools provided by FG. Admittedly it is tedious, but it is simple.

Accessibility is a higher priority for me than functionality for data intended to be stored, so long as functionality is at an acceptable minimum (which pdf is for me).