Spell scaling

[paladinm]

I'm curious as to the direction that DNDN is taking with regards to the increasing power of spells as a character advances. Let's say a wizard hits 5th level, where s/he gets to use 3rd level spells. Of course, s/he picks something like Fireball which deals 1D6 per caster level. This means that s/he starts with 5D6 (potential 30HP) area damage from day 1.. darn good for just getting the spell. Then as s/he levels up, the dice increase as well, up to a max of 10D6 (60HP).

As I understand it, DNDN is supposed to be limiting the damage and ruling out the "auto-scaling." How will this actually work? If Fireball is a 3rd level spell, will it start out at 3D6 damage, with more damage possible if the caster casts with a higher spell slot? So if you want 9D6 damage, you have to cast as a 90th level spell? I guess the caster's level will not matter anymore, other than determining which spells you have available?

 

[Gold Roger]

Something like that, though I think fireball will be more like 5d6 or even 6d6 at spell level 3. No idea how it scales when prepared at higher spell levels, maybe +2d6 per additional spell level?

I quite like it, as before spell casters had the advantage that they not only got more and better spells as they leveled, but in addition all spells they already had got better at no cost. It's already hard enough to balance spellcasters and non-spellcasters, so this should help.

 

[Raith5]

From everything I have heard I think you are right.

What will be interesting is to see how spells that dont do damage will scale. The sleep spell in the DDN playtest looks pretty strong starting place for a first level spell. I like the drowsy part of the spell description, but I am not sure how I feel about 10 hp cut off for saving against the sleep affect (why cant it be level or hd)

 

[erf_beto]

What will be interesting is to see how spells that dont do damage will scale. The sleep spell in the DDN playtest looks pretty strong starting place for a first level spell. I like the drowsy part of the spell description, but I am not sure how I feel about 10 hp cut off for saving against the sleep affect (why cant it be level or hd)

I suppose Sleep in a higher level slot would increase the HP threshold (15, 20...).

 

[Rhenny]

Basically no spell should scale, but many spells should be able to be prepared at higher levels to gain a more improved version of the spell. Since this is what I think WoTC was going for, they need to rework Magic Missile so that it does not automatically scale. As a cantrip, it should fire one missile, just one. Perhaps as a first level spell it can fire multiple missiles (up to 3).

 

[Lwaxy]

Yeah I think those spells will simply do more damage to begin with.


I don't think I could sell the new method to my players. So we'll likely keep it as is.

 

[paladinm]

I kinda like the idea of casting spells at higher levels. Sorcerers (3.x) have the ability to use higher slots for lower spells if need be; it would be cool if doing that would increase the effectiveness of the spell. I can definitely see using this with spontaneous casting. If you're fighting a red dragon and need a really amped-up version of Cone of Cold? Just cast at a higher level!

 

[BobTheNob]

This idea of spells not scaling really puts a smile on my face. It not only limits the quadratic growth of focused casters, it also lends feasibility to tinkerers.

I hated in 3e adding a mage level onto my fighter and thinking "woohoo, fighter/mage, awesome" only to discover spells had a 1 round duration, or did 1d4 damaghe. It sucked.

I like that a spell is a spell is a spell. As a tinkerer, I dont mind if Im only able to cast 2 spells a day (hey, I didnt invest much, I dont have high expectations) but at least those spells will be worth casting.

 

[Gadget]

Basically no spell should scale, but many spells should be able to be prepared at higher levels to gain a more improved version of the spell. Since this is what I think WoTC was going for, they need to rework Magic Missile so that it does not automatically scale. As a cantrip, it should fire one missile, just one. Perhaps as a first level spell it can fire multiple missiles (up to 3).

I thing the reasoning behind this is that it really defeats the purpose of having an at-will cantrip to prepare it in a 'higher level slot'. So, after a few levels, your cantrips will be much less effective than they were a few levels ago and there will be almost no point in wasting an action to use them, ergo some automatic scaling for direct damage cantrips.

Now having said that, they did say they went toward the higher powered end of the scale in the play test as they would rather scale things back than beef them up in future play tests. Also, there is the issue of whether it is a good idea to have 'attack' cantrips at all, as you don't really need to scale mage hand or light and the like. It is a tricky issue and involves a lot of personal preference and flavor.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Limiting inherent scaling, but allowing it via preparing lower level spells in higher level slots is pretty clever. I'd like to see that experimented with in play.

Just think: you only need one spell! Just prepare magic missile for every spell level ...

I might combine it with an ability to combine or break down spell slots to "over cast". So suppose for example you can have a 3rd level spell slot, but give it up on the fly to cast 2 2d level spells, or sacrifice 2 2d level spells to cast a 3d level spell on the fly.