Splash damage question

[Borthos]

Ok, if a large or larger creature gets a splash weapon thrown at him, because he technically also takes up squares in the splash zone, does he take the 1 point of splash damage?

 

[TanisFrey]

Yes, however if the creature has outsider traits it will be useless. Why? Each square of a splash should be considered a separate attack therefore the outsiders energy resistance to acid and fire 5 comes into play.

Otherwise you can get an extra 3 points of damage on a large and 3 points on a corner hit of something bigger or 5 if on an edge.

If you are allowed to import 3.5 material and want to maximise this attack form ask to take the Grenadier feat from PBH II page 79. You get a +1 to hit and +1 to damage. You apply the extra damage to primary and splash damage.

 

[Mojo_Rat]

if a large or larger creature is hit by a splash attack it only takes the damage once. same as a large creature getting hit with fireball single application of damage.

 

[Borthos]

Unless you play an alchemist who can make stuff for 1/3 of the price. Not game breaking, but I wanted other people's opinions. My guy's the alchemist.

I get to add my int mod to splash weapons and bombs, including splash damage. so that alchemist fire I just threw? if splash plays against each square a creature occupies? He takes 1d6+4 initial and 5 extra per square if we change it like Tanis says.

Or if splash damage just applies once to a large or bigger creature? 1d6+9 (+4 int, +1 splash, +4 int added to splash). not that bad at level 4 is it? especially when I can throw 2 with TWF at 4th, 3 at 5th (rapid shot and TWF) and deal 3d6+30 (assuming my intelligence goes up by 2 at that point and splash damage applies only once per large creature.) fire resistance 5? oops, you only took 3d6+25. Oh wait, I threw acid? or Liquid Ice? oops, no resistance.

I take issue with the fireball comparison. Fireball doesn't deal splash damage at all. Not the same thing.

 

[Mojo_Rat]

if the ogre for example is the primary target of your bomb. he takes no splash damage at all. he will take the primary damage from the bomb. secondly lvl 4 alchemists throw exatly 1 Bomb a turn. rapid shot and twf etc have no effect on bombs rate of fire. there is a higher level discovery swift bombs which allows iterative attacks with bombs. rapid shot comes I t play here. but you cannot have this at level 4.

 

[TanisFrey]

Unless you play an alchemist who can make stuff for 1/3 of the price. Not game breaking, but I wanted other people's opinions. My guy's the alchemist.

I get to add my int mod to splash weapons and bombs, including splash damage. so that alchemist fire I just threw? if splash plays against each square a creature occupies? He takes 1d6+4 initial and 5 extra per square if we change it like Tanis says.

Or if splash damage just applies once to a large or bigger creature? 1d6+9 (+4 int, +1 splash, +4 int added to splash). not that bad at level 4 is it? especially when I can throw 2 with TWF at 4th, 3 at 5th (rapid shot and TWF) and deal 3d6+30 (assuming my intelligence goes up by 2 at that point and splash damage applies only once per large creature.) fire resistance 5? oops, you only took 3d6+25. Oh wait, I threw acid? or Liquid Ice? oops, no resistance.

I take issue with the fireball comparison. Fireball doesn't deal splash damage at all. Not the same thing.

If you go with this just make sure that each square of splash is counted as a separate attack. Therefore a creature and appropriate energy takes a small amount of damage across its body instead of all in one place.

You throw Alchemist fire with an INT of 20 at a large creature you will do 1d6+5 plus splash of 1+5 (x3), a total of about 24-30 points of damage. A creature with fire resistance 5 will only take 1d6+5-5 plus splash of 1+5-5 (x3), or a total of about 4-10 points of damage. A creature with fire resistance will take as most 1 point of damage. (1d6+5-10 = 0 or 1, no damage from splash.)

Please note that even using all the splash you are only getting into the mid-range damage of a fireball against one creature and not every one within 20 ft of ground zero, there is how it balances with AOE damage spells plus it cost gold for every attack.

You should only get to swap the energy type after one attack and notice that the creature took less than optional damage. Unless you spend a round to use the appropriate Knowledge skill to know if it is resistance/immune to any one type of energy damage.

 

[Borthos]

I'm not throwing bombs in this exmaple, maybe I'm throwing Alchemist Fire or Acid vials. I'm not doing 1d6 wiht my bombs by then anyway, by 5th they're 3d6. Fourth they're at 2d6. and they'd be taking a lot more than 5 damage from splash.

Yeah, I keep a somewhat healthy supply of Acid, a few Liquid Ices, and some Alchemist Fires on hand just in case i come across energy resistant stuff so i have some options. I just wanted to ask about this because the rules do not address hitting a large or larger creature with a splash weapon.

 

[Mojo_Rat]

right but bombs are splash weapons also what I. trying to say is doing the way you suggest is obscenely strong. given bombs are splash weapons most large creatures will just die instantly from a single bomb. the game applies damage from effects once per creature not for every square it takes up.

 

[TanisFrey]

Paizo did not change the language for PF from the 3.5 language. If you read my post on the D&D Legacy boards, found here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/301803-splash-damage-question.html#post5475448
I note that logic can be applied to say that a normal Alchemist Fire Flask or Acid Flask will do splash damage to large creatures. To Quote the PF SDR this time:
"Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of fire damage from the splash."

The logic goes that a large creature is a creature within 5 feet therefore it takes splash damage.

Overall in PF or 3.5 logic can be used to argue either way. My best advice is to talk to you DM if s/he will allow splash damage to affect larger creatures in addition to a primary hit. Don't just spring it on them, that a surefire way of getting a no. And expect that at some point some enemy will fire bomb that fighter with a enlarge person, who is your ally and the DM will apply splash damage.

 

[Dalzig]

Wouldn't every creature technically be within 5 feet of where the flask hits, so they ALL take extra damage?

Edit: Wow, someone asked that same question in the thread you linked to. I must be psychic.