SR vs. Slaying Arrow

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Doesn't a spell produce a spell-like effect?

No. A spell produces a spell effect.

Don't supernatural abilities in many cases produce spell-like effects?

No. While they may produce spell-like (in the English language sense) effects (c.f. vampire's Domination ability), they actually produce supernatural effects (in the game-rules language sense).

EDIT:

A scroll produces a spell effect, not a spell-like effect.

A wand produces a spell effect, not a spell-like effect.

An arrow of slaying produces a spell-like effect - in fact, it produces a *unique* spell-like effect, as per:

Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Only if the creature were the target of the flaming enhancement, as per the rules for SR and targeted spells.



The flaming enhancement directly affects the sword, and not the creature, so therefore SR does not come into the question.

By that definition SR doesn't protect you from area spells.

EDIT:

Also, note Flame Blade:

Flame Blade

Spell Resistance: Yes

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

By that definition SR doesn't protect you from area spells.

Except that certain area spells have an "SR: Yes" tag, which overrides any other considerations.

For instance:

Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Spell Resistance: Yes

As opposed to:

Spell Resistance: No

Acorn Grenades: As many as four acorns turn into special splash weapons that can be hurled as far as 100 feet. A ranged touch attack roll is required to strike the intended target. Together, the acorns are capable of dealing 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 20d6), divided up among the acorns as you wish.

Each acorn explodes upon striking any hard surface. In addition to its regular fire damage, it deals 1 point of splash damage per die, and it ignites any combustible materials within 10 feet. A creature within this area that makes a successful Reflex saving throw takes only half damage; a creature struck directly is not allowed a saving throw.


Holly Berry Bombs: You turn as many as eight holly berries into special bombs. The holly berries are usually placed by hand, since they are too light to make effective thrown weapons (they can be tossed only 5 feet). If you are within 200 feet and speak a word of command, each berry instantly bursts into flame, causing 1d8 points of fire damage +1 point per caster level to every creature in a 5-foot radius burst and igniting any combustible materials within 5 feet. A creature in the area that makes a successful Reflex saving throw takes only half damage.

EDIT:

Really, what we're looking at here is that Evocations are just about always subject to Spell Resistance, whether or not they "should" be by other considerations.

Fireball, which produces something nearly identical to the Fire Seed spell in Holly Berry form, is subject to SR, while the latter is not. The first is Evocation [Fire], the second Transmutation [Fire]. C'est la vie, n'est-ce pas?

 

[dcollins]

So, since magic items can't produce spell-like abilities...

I can't agree with that. From the SRD:

SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS
Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects...

From the DMG

SPELL RESISTANCE
...For example, the fear effect from a rod of lordly might is subject to spell resistance because it is a spell-like effect...

Note especially the last quote which indicates that "spell-like ability" and "spell-like effect" are synonymous.

 

[dungeon blaster]

But the effect of the flaming enhancement is to deal fire damage to the target, just as the effect of the slaying arrow is to slay the target. The spell is still cast onto the arrow, not the target.

 

[ThirdWizard]

EDIT:

Really, what we're looking at here is that Evocations are just about always subject to Spell Resistance, whether or not they "should" be by other considerations.

Is that flaming enhancement not an evocation effect? At least, detect magic says it is.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

But the effect of the flaming enhancement is to deal fire damage to the target

No, the effect of the flaming enhancement is to set your sword alight. The flaming sword then does perfectly normal fire damage to whatever it hits.

just as the effect of the slaying arrow is to slay the target. The spell is still cast onto the arrow, not the target.

No, the effect of the arrow is to "cast" (invoke?) a spell-like effect on the target once the arrow hits its target.

It's the difference between a quiver that magically conjures otherwise mundane poison to coat the arrows stored within it, and one that casts the poison spell on a target once the arrow hits.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Is that flaming enhancement not an evocation effect? At least, detect magic says it is.

I direct you to my above comment, wherein I typed, and you quoted, "just about always."

Furthermore:

Fire Shield
Evocation [Fire or Cold]
Level: Fire 5, Sor/Wiz 4, Sun 4
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

... and ...

Forcecage
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Barred cage (20-ft. cube) or windowless cell (10-ft. cube)
Duration: 2 hours/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

See? Evocation with no SR.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, the effect of the flaming enhancement is to set your sword alight. The flaming sword then does perfectly normal fire damage to whatever it hits.

So if there's a creature that only takes damage from magical fire, a flaming sword doesn't suffice?

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So if there's a creature that only takes damage from magical fire, a flaming sword doesn't suffice?

Don't know. Is there anything that only takes damage from magical fire?