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SRD Competition Submission Thread

Winternight

First Post
TheRaven said:
Now, I hate to say this, but this contest is awfully organized. One could think, that a contest with prizes and chosen judges shouldn't take two weeks. Well, to be honest it looks like the community will never see the results of this competition. At least it was a good idea. :(
Sorry but some judges - e.g. me have to work for their money. I don`t live from my mom`s fridge.
just wondering why you just have 10 or so posts?


@dimwhit I email you my judging in a couple of hours.
@dimwhit & all: Sorry for the delay, still have a project to finish and have been best man yesterday. I mail my judging -who needs sleep anyway?
Edit: minor spelling
 
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Usurper

First Post
TheRaven said:
Now, I hate to say this, but this contest is awfully organized. One could think, that a contest with prizes and chosen judges shouldn't take two weeks. Well, to be honest it looks like the community will never see the results of this competition. At least it was a good idea. :(

At the risk of being called a terrible disrespectful troll, I agree that this took too long.

Hmm, piratecat told us not to post our entry here, so we won't.

But you can go to http://geocities.com/sovelior/srd/home.html

and check it out (It may not have everything we're sending in though).

Some of you might remember Sovelior stating that he wouldn't have time to finish it, so I helped him
and now it's alomst done.

Sage

That looks really cool, but it's messed in Mozilla/Phoenix/Netscape 6+. Might have something to do with this line

edit: looks like html is parsed. Couldn't post the code. Look for a td nested in a td.

Opera handled it okay at any rate.

Good luck on the SRD site.
 
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TheRaven

First Post
Winternight said:
Sorry but some judges - e.g. me have to work for their money. I don`t live from my mom`s fridge.

I absolutly understand that. However, if someone knows, that his time is limited he surely shouldn't apply for being a judge anyway. I live from my own fridge since many years now but that's slightly beside the thread. :)

Winternight said:
just wondering why you just have 10 or so posts?

I thought my bad grammar already gave away, that english is none of my naitive languages. And that's the reason why I rarerly post on english forums.

Winternight said:
@dimwhit I email you my judging in a couple of hours.
@dimwhit & all: Sorry for the delay, still have a project to finish and have been best man yesterday. I mail my judging -who needs sleep anyway?

Perfect. That's exactly, what my initial post intended. Thank you. Hope to see the hard work of the creators soon. :)
 

TheRaven

First Post
Usurper said:
That looks really cool, but it's messed in Mozilla/Phoenix/Netscape 6+.

Using Mozilla Firebird 0.6 without any troubles. Well, this forum just doesn't work with it but the SRD you are writing about is fine.
 

Usurper

First Post
TheRaven said:
Using Mozilla Firebird 0.6 without any troubles. Well, this forum just doesn't work with it but the SRD you are writing about is fine.

Hmm, you're right, my old phoenix .6 is working with it, but mozilla 1.5b from Aug. 27th shows it smooshed to the right. I'll update my moz to a new nightly and see if it's a one-off bug or if their renderer has become more "strict."
 

woodelf

First Post
TheRaven said:
I just think, the behavior of some judges is disrespectfull to the creators who worked hard to meet a deadline.

huh? It's been, what, 2 weeks? That is *not* a long time. On the assumption that those doing the judging have things to do besides read SRDs, i don't see the big deal. That's a *lot* to read through--and they are gonna need to at least skim them to make a fair determination, IMHO. I suspect that i'm not the only one who attempted to make improvements to the content/organization, rather than just slapping the source files into a layout. It takes a fair bit of time to get a feel for the organization of such a large document, and decide if you think it is better or not. [I don't even know if i'm included in the judging, so the next statement might not be hypothetical.] I know that if i were one of those whose work was being judged, i'd be upset at a quick judgement, because i don't think a snap judgement based on general appearance would do the work justice. But i certainly wouldn't be complaining 'cause it took 2 weeks--a really quite miniscule amount of time.
 

TheRaven

First Post
woodelf said:
That's a *lot* to read through--and they are gonna need to at least skim them to make a fair determination, IMHO. I suspect that i'm not the only one who attempted to make improvements to the content/organization, rather than just slapping the source files into a layout.

Reading it through? Come on, be serious. The contest was/is about layout and presentation. I surely don't want a SRD where the creator has edited and changed the content. Such a work would go instantly to my recycle bin. Reviewing one of the submission, if seriously done, takes about a half up to a whole hour.

woodelf said:
I know that if i were one of those whose work was being judged, i'd be upset at a quick judgement, because i don't think a snap judgement based on general appearance would do the work justice.

I absolutly agree. However, reviewing a document for up to an hour isn't a quick judgement. Granted, an hour for every document is quite some time but if the judges were serious about the contest, then they only applied for the job if they have that time.

Sorry, just writing my opinion. :)
 

woodelf

First Post
TheRaven said:
Reading it through? Come on, be serious. The contest was/is about layout and presentation. I surely don't want a SRD where the creator has edited and changed the content. Such a work would go instantly to my recycle bin. Reviewing one of the submission, if seriously done, takes about a half up to a whole hour.

Yep. And in order to get a decent presentation, you're gonna have to reorganize and edit a bit. The D20SRD is horribly organized, and poorly explained, just like the D&D core books it's based upon. On top of this, it has the inconsistencies of 3.5E vs. psionics, some editing gaffes, and even-more-bizarre division of content. (Why, pray tell, is an incomplete list of special abilities presented in one document, while a more-complete but less-well-explained set of the special abilities is mixed in with two other kinds of content in another?) Thus my comment that just putting the files into a nice layout, IMHO, is only doing half the job. You can look at my incomplete version (link is further up the thread) to see what i mean--and if you look closely at what i put together, you'll see that i rewrote about 2 [non-rules] sentences in the entire SRD, in order to make things flow better. But i moved a lot of stuff around. And added some bits (clearly delineated as sidebars). So part of the question should be: "is it better to have the bonus power points table in the Psion class description or in the Abilities section (with the bonus spells)?" Things like that that might take a closer reading to decide.

Now, if i were *really* the editor on this project, i'd demand a lot more consistency. Why are some groups "subtypes" (angel, archon) while others aren't (devil, demon, elemental)? Why do some subtypes have a distinct entry in the monster descriptions (dragon, elemental, angel, demon), while others are scattered all about (undead)? Why are some monsters listed in a fashion to match alphabetizing ("angel, solar") while others are backwards ("blue dragon") and still others are just bare ("pit fiend")? Why are "greater" versions of spells pulled out of order, but "true" and "improved" versions aren't? Why is weapon specialization a "feat" that fighters get as a class ability at a specific level, and which only fighters can take at all, while skill mastery is a "class ability" that rogues get at a variable level, and which only rogues can take at all? Why are magic items alphabetized--except for weapons & armor? The list goes on and on. And that's without even delving down to the level of the rules themselves--that's *all* presentation issues. If i wanted to address the rules directly, we'd have another pile of inconsistent decisions (such as the divisions between feat, class ability, and skill--just to start with). But i set out to do this project with nothing more than cut-n-paste, both to save myself the headaches and because, as you said, it'd defeat the purpose of it if it wasn't a [near-]verbatim reproduction of the content of the revised D20SRD.

Anyway, rant over. You're probably more right than i am on the timeframe--an hour or two should be plenty of time to flip through 800pp and at least get enough of a feel for the presentation (including organizational elements) to make a decision. But that doesn't change the fact that, IMHO, to do this well involves a lot more than just layout. Also, the decision part may be the hangup--what if you look through them all, and one has a really nice look, but another is really well organized, and a third is the most optimized for printing? Which is likely to be the case--both due to personal proclivities and inherent conflicts between various goals, you are unlikely to see one version that is the best in all possible categories and for all possible uses.
 

TheRaven

First Post
woodelf said:
Yep. And in order to get a decent presentation, you're gonna have to reorganize and edit a bit. The D20SRD is horribly organized, and poorly explained, just like the D&D core books it's based upon. On top of this, it has the inconsistencies of 3.5E vs. psionics, some editing gaffes, and even-more-bizarre division of content.

I understand your point of view but most people want the official SRD 100% consistent. Moving around chapters and changing order is no problem but changing the text is something that shouldn't be done. If one does something like that, then I pray he'll point that out BIG TIME. I know the quirks of the 3.5 SRD in and out but other people may false edit the whole thing and I don't want to take that risk. A lot if not all people have one or more thing they do not completly understand about the 3.5 rules and you can imagine what happens if they change the text of such rules. Editing typos is the borderline of allowed changes in my view.

Be aware, that there are potential risks with the licenses if you edit the SRD text but my knowledge is limited with such things.
 

kingpaul

First Post
TheRaven said:
Be aware, that there are potential risks with the licenses if you edit the SRD text but my knowledge is limited with such things.
How so? The SRD is OGC, so if you derive from it, and properly add your own line in S15 of the accompanying OGL, IMO, you haven't violoated anything.
 

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