Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Hosnian system, which is destroyed, is not the New Republic's seat. It is just the nearest Republic system to the Starkiller Station, not unlike the Death Star test on Alderaan, or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

The Republic allows the Resistance to operate and fight the First Order to keep their hands clean of war. They are specifically the Resistance against the First Order, and nothing more. The New Republic's capitol is Chandrila and Mon Mothma is Chancellor of the new Galactic Senate there. I'm not for sure if she is still in charge during the events of The Force Awakens though.

Hmm... apparently according to Star Wars: The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary, Hosnian Prime was serving as the Republic's Capital and headquarters of the Galactic Senate at the time of its destruction.

Chandrila was chosen as the capital immediately after Endor, but the label moved from planet to planet based on elections.

Source: Wookieepedia.

-Hyp.

 

[Umbran]

Hmm... apparently according to Star Wars: The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary, Hosnian Prime was serving as the Republic's Capital and headquarters of the Galactic Senate at the time of its destruction.

Chandrila was chosen as the capital immediately after Endor, but the label moved from planet to planet based on elections.

This was my understanding as well - and they did say it was the Capitol when they shot at it.

 

[Ningauble]

Saw it last night. Here is my quick review after sleeping on it. Overall, a B-. Visually stunning, great new characters, but the plot was terrible (Episode IV copy cat) and too many unexplained things. I felt like they rammed the new characters down your throat when they should have eased you in a bit more, and JJ played it too safe. Felt like too much was thrown in just to sell toys.

Pros:
* Daisy Ridley is fantastic. I was totally sucked in once she started using Jedi powers.
* Liked Finn, but his character could have used some more explanation. How did he break the storm trooper conditioning? What are his talents? He's seriously a stormtrooper garbage man?
* Adam Driver was great. Loved Kylo Ren. Seriously psychotic with some major anger and daddy issues. Love that he feels conflict between light and dark sides of the force.
* My kids loved it and I was on the edge of my seat during the Rey / Ren battle and Rey going to the Jedi Temple to find Luke.
* Harrison Ford was awesome. Loved seeing Solo and Chewie as smugglers again.

Cons:
* JJ Abrams seriously messed up Threepio & R2D2. Threepio has always been the greatest comic relief. They missed a huge opportunity to have Threepio annoy Solo again. The droids have always been a centerpiece of Star Wars, and now they are relegated to a dusty corner in low power mode and an unexplained red arm (unless you want to read a Marvel comic book - no thanks).
* No explanation of the rise of the New Order / state of affairs of the galaxy. I sense a disney marketing ploy here to make you read the novels / books.
* Poe's character was basically a cardboard cut out. He's the greatest pilot in the Resistance. That's really all I learned about him.
* I was underwhelmed by the X-wing / Tie-fighter battles. Visually ok, but little real suspense.
* The giant gollum, Snoke. Is he really giant sized? He could have potential, but again could have used some explanation. My kids really said, "Is that gollum?"
* Solo was really going to let the Falcon be taken from him? It was always his baby - plus the fastest ship.
* Maz or whatever the big eyed orange alien was called was horrible. Episode VII's Jar Jar. Very annoying and visually not cool. What's with the goggles?
* What was the Awakening in the force? Rey? Where were the Force Ghosts? I was expecting to see or hear a Force Ghost of Yoda or Obi-wan.
* Most of the New Order guys were cardboard characters. The red haired general's over acting was hard to watch. Why didn't Captain Phasma get to do anything (except be another action figure to sell?)
* I wanted to see more cool new aliens / random monsters / weird quirkiness. They tried to do this a bit in Maz's cantina but nothing blew me away.

There's still hope for the next movie at least. I left the theater really wanting to see what happens next so that's a good sign.

 

[Umbran]

Cons:
* he droids have always been a centerpiece of Star Wars, and now they are relegated to a dusty corner in low power mode and an unexplained red arm (unless you want to read a Marvel comic book - no thanks).

Anthony Daniels is still signed on for two more movies. There's time to tell some more story with them.

* No explanation of the rise of the New Order / state of affairs of the galaxy. I sense a disney marketing ploy here to make you read the novels / books.
* Poe's character was basically a cardboard cut out. He's the greatest pilot in the Resistance. That's really all I learned about him.
* The giant gollum, Snoke. Is he really giant sized? He could have potential, but again could have used some explanation.
* Most of the New Order guys were cardboard characters. ... Why didn't Captain Phasma get to do anything (except be another action figure to sell?)
* I wanted to see more cool new aliens / random monsters / weird quirkiness.

There is only so much story that can be told in two hours. What would you give up to have these things?

* What was the Awakening in the force? Rey? Where were the Force Ghosts? I was expecting to see or hear a Force Ghost of Yoda or Obi-wan.

Why were you expecting that? Neither of those characters have had contact with the new characters here. And Sir Alec Guinness has been dead for 15 years. And Ewan MacGregor was probably the best thing in the prequels, but it wouldn't do to have his young voice there.

 

[Water Bob]

* JJ Abrams seriously messed up Threepio & R2D2. Threepio has always been the greatest comic relief. They missed a huge opportunity to have Threepio annoy Solo again.

There is that scene where Solo waits for the ship to land that he knows is carrying Leia. The hatch opens. People come out. Then....Han sees the love of his life. And, just as she approaches, C-3P0 steps between them, "Captain Solo! It is so good to see you!"

* No explanation of the rise of the New Order / state of affairs of the galaxy. I sense a disney marketing ploy here to make you read the novels / books.

Very much like the movie that started it all, A New Hope. What did we know of Vader or the Emperor, or really, of much of the Empire? What were the Sith, and why was Vader a Lord of them? Is the Grand Moff a rank? If so, what is it equivalent to? Why were the stormtroopers so loyal?

We've got several questions about The Force Awakens as we did after seeing A New Hope.

Poe's character was basically a cardboard cut out. He's the greatest pilot in the Resistance. That's really all I learned about him.

And, what did we know of Wedge Antilles after seeing A New Hope?

* I was underwhelmed by the X-wing / Tie-fighter battles. Visually ok, but little real suspense.

Wow! They blew me away. I think they're some of the best scenes in all seven movies.

* The giant gollum, Snoke. Is he really giant sized?

I think it was just part of the projection--the Emperor on a power trip.

* What was the Awakening in the force? Rey? Where were the Force Ghosts? I was expecting to see or hear a Force Ghost of Yoda or Obi-wan.

The Awakening was Rey. Rey discovered her Force ability.

 

[MarkB]

After watching it a few times with a cool head, people will be more critical. Like why was it so easy to get into the Millenium Falcon and just take it?

From her numerous comments on the ways it had been modified, it becomes clear over the course of their escape that Rey had some part in its ongoing retrofitting process. So she was familiar with it and knew what it would take to get it flying.

Why couldn't Solo track it before it flew?

Seriously? What do you think, he was tracking it by shape and colour? He even mentions its energy signature being distinctive enough that the First Order will also be able to track it - so yeah, in order for him to track its energy signature, it has to actually be using energy.

How come Rey progressed so fast with her mastery of the Force? How did Tekka find the missing piece of Luke's map?

Deliberately left ambiguous for the sequel, and welcome in that regard. It's nice that there's an unfolding plot here that isn't tied up neatly in one package.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

She doesn't need to learn it from a wookiee, she could have been taught by someone else, like Max Von Sydow's character (whose voice we hear when we get the flashback of young Rey being left on Jakku).

If she is Luke's daughter, and the Empire (and later the First Order) was actively hunting him, it'd make sense for him to leave her in the care of a trusted ally, with no knowledge of her real heritage, trusting that the Force would bring them together at some point.

Hadn't thought of that. GOod point!

I personally find that new is not a very major selling point, in and of itself. I think of it this way - we've each had many meals in our lives, many dishes. You've had lasagna before, you'll have it again. There's nothing *new* in lasagna. But, when someone hands you are really good plate of lasagna, that can be an excellent meal.

Also, Star Wars has always been a cyclical epic saga. The story of how the new generation takes the torch from the old is going to have call backs to the story of how the old generation got started. And it should. It's not necessarily an insanely new and original plot, but so what? It's a good one, and it's not the same one as before. It's just cyclical.
Most of history's greatest story tellers didn't give us much that was super original. Look at Hamlet.

It's not like A New Hope was good because of it's originality. It was a space samurai hero's journey. It was great for a host of other reasons.

Nah, the other canon stuff (the book Aftermath and other things) tell us that the Republic is in control. I agree that the movie isn't very clear; hopefully they'll put more info in the next one. The First Order is more akin to those Nazis on the moon in Iron Sky - remnants who hid and are trying to come back now.

This may be unpopular, but the fact that we don't get all the worldbuilding details in the first film was a huge "pro" for me. I really dislike when films try to give you the entire state of the universe in the first half hour. Or even at all. I don't need to know how the politics of the setting work ever, unless that is specifically part of the plot, and in a multi movie setup, I don't need to understand it all in the first film, even if it is part of the plot.

Absolutely one of the best things about the movie, IMO, was all of the unanswered questions. I hope that some of them remain that way until at least the third film, and some are only ever answered in books or cartoons or whatever.

As for the resistance, I think the idea is that the New Republic doesn't officially support them, and maybe isn't even united in it's underhanded support of them, but the Resistance is getting support from them. Remember the speech, nazi guy says that the Republic is lying to it's people, and secretly supporting the Resistance. To me, that clearly establishes that the New Order is essentially a rival state, but that the Republic is the biggest game in town, as it were. Meanwhile, the Resistence recognizes the threat, is fighting against it, but lacks official govt sanction.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Finally I can look at this thread!

Just got back from seeing it. Overall: very entertaining, quite good, but not quite great. In the continuum of Star Wars material I’d put it behind Star Wars and ESB, just ahead of RotJ, and well ahead of the prequels, in quality. Specific opinions:

The Great

- Starfighter & Falcon battles rock. Great to see a good pilot who’s a good pilot, not a jedi (I miss Wedge).
- Atmospheric combat (can I get some love in X-Wing for in-atmo now, please? I want to do Hoth, and now whatever the name of the green water planet is).
- BB-8 stealing the show, and a practical effect to boot. I loved that little droid. One flaming thumb up!

The Good

- Character development, done early, but succinctly. Really enjoyed the three new heroes.
- Hits the major Star Wars themes
- The repeated theme of “family” echoing through the series
- Lived-in universe (well, except the First Order)
- Cantina filled with weird creatures, check.
- Subtle throw-backs to the originals (“I’ve got a bad feeling”, the trash compactor, etc)
- Humanized Stormtroopers
- Some great mysteries. Who is Rey? Who is Snoke? How’d Kylo get corrupted? Who was Max Von Sydow’s character, and what was his relationship with Luke?
- Han/Leia motivations and relationship.
- Han being pirate/smuggler-y
- Ren punching himself in his wound to get his Dark Side mojo up. Clearly, he’s conflicted. And yet nicely psychotic.
- No bouncing Jedi fights? I’m looking at you, Yoda.
- Admiral Ackbar, back in the saddle. Wish he’d said “It’s a Trap!”

The Bad

- How’d Poe come back? Jarring Deus-Ex, when he was wearing his jacket flying (assuming he ejected).
- Captain Phasma is “Boba Fett in RotJ” competent
- Some missing links. What’s going on in the New Republic, and can we learn a little more about the relationship to the Resistance? Why isn’t the Republic publicly resisting?
- Sometimes, this universe is just too small. Map to a location in the uncharted Unknown Regions of the galaxy? Check, we’ll be there in 15.
- Luke pulling a Yoda, running and hiding for 20+ years. Such wusses, these Jedi.
- Rabid octopuses on a freighter scene … pretty unnecessary.
- My wife saying “Look, it’s Gollum!” when Snoke is introduced. Guess they need a different mo-cap actor than Andy Serkis, ‘cause he only does one character.
- We blew up the New Republic Senate (I think … seemed vague) and basically no one notices.
- Cliffhanger … you just leave it there and we have to wait how long for resolution?

The Ugly

- First Order as mustachio-twirling eeeevil. Some depth, or at least development, please? Why are they obsessed with order? Tarkin had more depth.
- Yet Another SuperWeapon trope. Really, we break into the Death Star to rescue the girl and then blow it up after a major character dies on a lightsaber …again? Especially when combined with RotJ’s “blow up the shield generator so the attack can proceed” subplot.

4 stars out of 5.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What I don't get, is removing the star destroys the system, so why shoot anything? The system loses its heat, its gravity well, and everything not sealed up dies. That's one of the few things that made me scratch my head.

I struggle with this too. So, it sucks in the star. FIne. The gravity well doesn't go anywhere; all of the mass is still there (or moved only slightly). Though the planet should then implode under the gravity of all that mass. And then it spits it across the galaxy at a zillion times light speed, so that it's visible everywhere? A wha huh?

I know, I know, don't ask about Star Wars physics; it's space magic.

Future speculations:

- Rey is Luke's daughter. By whom TBD; whether he knew her TBD, but Mom left her with the Max Von Sydow character because he knew Luke and about the Force and would send Rey on to Luke when the time was right. Max = Ben Kenobi + Uncle Owen.

- Snoke is someone we've encountered before. He knows the force, and is horribly scarred. The Emperor returned would be too trite. How about Boba Fett, scarred from his escape from the Sarlacc?

- Since family seems to be a theme, finding Finn's will be a plot point. Is this where Lando enters?

- Luke trains Rey to be a Jedi as Kylo Ren hunts down (and eventually kills) Luke.

- The Knights of Ren are Luke's other surviving apprentices, turned to the Dark Side.

 

[Morrus]

I have a theory about Phasma. We know she was originally a male part before Christie got it. I bet that original character didn't have a cool chrome costume either.

Imagine that part. Same lines, same events. But instead of Gwendolyn Christie in shiny armour, it's an officious officer in uniform.

They changed the appearance, but not the actual role.