Star wars - which version?

[Votan]

Well, the brief encounter I had with SAGA (two campaigns that lasted about 3 sessions) seemed to indicated Jedi could easily get a super-high "Use the Force" skill that made it really easy to dominate encounters. My character, a Cerean, had a +12 UTF skill, Force Slam and Move Object. Most encounters I was involved with ended before others got to go - I either knocked the enemies silly or pinned them under crates and such. And that was just combat - out of combat I was a pretty good diplomat. If this doesn't bear out in the long run, I'll certainly concede the point.

I'd love to be able to run a game with one jedi (maybe two - master + apprentice) and the rest of the players being clones/support characters and it be balanced and fun for everyone -and I'd love to know which system would handle it the best.

My understandign with SAGA is that it is a pretty common house rule to ban taking Skill Focus: Use the Force until sixth or tenth level (this solves the issue with low level Jedi being way overpowered in force abilities).

One thing I love about the Star Wars games (all 4 of them) is the whole notion of dark side points. Done well, it is a very good reason for powerful "psionic/magical/mystical" characters to exercise a lot of restraint. One of the advantages of playing a non-Jedi is a much higher freedom of action.

In a sense, this could result in very muted responses to everyone hwo is not actively "Sith". In the second set of Timothy Zahn novels, there was an alien race that did not even want to meet with Luke Skywalker, as they had the theory that all Jedi who used the force as routinely as he did eventually fall to the dark side. It's not well supported by the prequels, but it was a nice idea. I find it a really interesting way of solving the classic issue of how to make the smuggler interesting in the same party as they character who can move jet fighters with her mind.

 

[DarthJodoc]

Fwiw...

I've played most versions of the Star Wars RPGs except the initial WotC versions (SW and SW Revised).

One should note that the design assumptions behind each of these games were based on the "canon" available at the time: for example, the d6 system required Force use to effectively/safely use a lightsaber. The prequels (with Grievous) and other media (like the current CGI The Clone Wars cartoon, with Cad Bane, Pre Vizsla and at least one other character) have shown this isn't the case (anymore, at least). EU stuff has Wookiee Jedi (rare, but there—something not possible in the d6 SW games). Elements like that.

The WEG d6 versions were nifty, but a nightmare when it came to Force users: they were either too weak or too powerful. The Force was a skill, like any other skill, and its improvement was very, very incremental. Lightsaber skill was tied to this, so having a Jedi able to use a lightsaber without self-injury took time... and by that time, they were powerful.

Never played the original WotC Star Wars (reg. and Rev.) RPG, though I wasn't crazy about the "use" of VP for Force powers, or the Level Adjustment for certain species (then again, I found LA to be a hassle at times).

Star Wars Saga ed. is a very nifty system, though my only complaint is the number of new options scattered across various sourcebooks (which can be time-consuming during the usual levelling of characters maintainance). Mechanics were refreshingly simple, and the heroic/nonheroic structure allows for the feel of the movies (such as cutting through swaths of battle droids or stormtroopers, but a lone bounty hunter, raging monster, or lightsaber-wielding Sith spells serious trouble).

The initial power level of Jedi/Force Sensitive characters can be an issue (esp. with adding Skill Focus in the mix), but there are limits to those powers (as noted before): they're Encounter powers, and it takes multiple selections (or very lucky dice rolls or character build options) to use a single power more than once an encounter. There's the threat of the Dark Side as well (using the Force to attack instead of defend, for example) should be an issue.

It's also a matter of when the game is set, as well: Jedi should be rare by the end of the Clone Wars (their numbers still need to be built up), and during certain times (the Original Trilogy, the Dark Times, etc.), it should be downright dangerous just to be a Jedi/Force Sensitive—using Force powers can be risky if one isn't careful. The threat of detection/discovery is a constant element, not just for the Jedi/Force Sensitive, but for everyone known to associate with the character as well (see Ep. V).

The Star Wars Saga Ed. did tip its hat to previous versions of the game (IIRC, there are some items/elements created in WEG's d6 game that were brought back in Saga).

Overall, IMO, I like Star Wars Sage ed. RPG the best. The WEG d6 games were fun (still remember them fondly), but they didn't run smoothly all of the time (depending on what you wanted to include), and they had certain setting rules hardwired into the game rules that were overturned by later sources. The initial, more d20 Modern-style SW games by WotC seemed okay, but suffered from the same clunkiness prone to 3.x D&D and d20 Modern (esp. at higher levels).

Just my 2¢ on the issue.

 

[pukunui]

It seems to me like all the various systems have their pros and cons and it really just boils down to a matter of personal preference.

EU stuff has Wookiee Jedi (rare, but there—something not possible in the d6 SW games).

Papa George has said there are to be no more Wookiee Jedi.

 

[wingsandsword]

I've played most versions of the Star Wars RPGs except the initial WotC versions (SW and SW Revised).

One should note that the design assumptions behind each of these games were based on the "canon" available at the time: for example, the d6 system required Force use to effectively/safely use a lightsaber. The prequels (with Grievous) and other media (like the current CGI The Clone Wars cartoon, with Cad Bane, Pre Vizsla and at least one other character) have shown this isn't the case (anymore, at least). EU stuff has Wookiee Jedi (rare, but there—something not possible in the d6 SW games). Elements like that.

Er, say what?

In the d6 version, to be nigh-unstoppable you needed the Lightsaber Combat force power so you could add your Force dice to Lightsaber rolls, but anybody could get and use the Lightsaber skill, they just wouldn't have as much cause to do so. A d6 version of General Grievous would probably have a very high Lightsaber skill, and with a superhuman strength and dexterity scores (I'd say 6D in each, but that's just me) and some cybernetics that give bonus damage with lightsabers, perhaps the highest Lightsaber skill in the galaxy because he could stand toe-to-toe with a Jedi and win without the Force.

Where in the d6 RAW does it say anything about no Wookiee Jedi? Admittedly, Lucas has come out and said "no more" Wookiee Jedi, that they are supposed to be super-rare and the few that are in canon already is all they will allow (apparently LFL came out with a list of restricted species that EU authors are no longer allow to depict as Jedi: Hutts, Wookiees, and Gungans were on the list IIRC), but that was last year and was never in any rules for any RPG.

 

[pukunui]

Where in the d6 RAW does it say anything about no Wookiee Jedi? Admittedly, Lucas has come out and said "no more" Wookiee Jedi, that they are supposed to be super-rare and the few that are in canon already is all they will allow (apparently LFL came out with a list of restricted species that EU authors are no longer allow to depict as Jedi: Hutts, Wookiees, and Gungans were on the list IIRC), but that was last year and was never in any rules for any RPG.

I was being facetious. Obviously George and his minions can't stop you from playing a Wookiee Jedi in your home RPG campaign. There just aren't going to be any more Wookiee Jedi in the EU (and there aren't any at all in the movies or the TV series, as per GL's wishes).

 

[Katana_Geldar]

I've played most versions of the Star Wars RPGs except the initial WotC versions (SW and SW Revised).

One should note that the design assumptions behind each of these games were based on the "canon" available at the time: for example, the d6 system required Force use to effectively/safely use a lightsaber. The prequels (with Grievous) and other media (like the current CGI The Clone Wars cartoon, with Cad Bane, Pre Vizsla and at least one other character) have shown this isn't the case (anymore, at least). EU stuff has Wookiee Jedi (rare, but there—something not possible in the d6 SW games). Elements like that.

The WEG d6 versions were nifty, but a nightmare when it came to Force users: they were either too weak or too powerful. The Force was a skill, like any other skill, and its improvement was very, very incremental. Lightsaber skill was tied to this, so having a Jedi able to use a lightsaber without self-injury took time... and by that time, they were powerful.

Something you must never, ever forget about Star Wars d6 is when it came out: in the Star Wars Dark Times, when absolutely nothing official was being produced. These guys weren't just using canon, they were making it. Is it by accident that The guy who wrote The Guide to the Star Wars Universe (still in print by the way) is now in charge of R&D at WotC? And what resource did Timothy Zahn use when he started to write The Thrawn Trilogy? Star Wars d6.

Even if you don't use the system, the books are worth picking up for this simple factor. I'd like to get the equipment lists

 

[Water Bob]

In our game that lasted over 2 years the Jedi was also very weak at the beginning. He had to buy a lot of basic force abilities that were expensive and not that effective then. But he grew in power and it was very cool to watch. In the end he was able to take on multiple opponents with ease and felt like a true Jedi to all of us.

This was my experience with a Force user in our 7-year D6 Star Wars campaign, too, back in the 90's. One of our players was swayed to the Dark Side, to eventually become Darth Vader's apprentice (this was before the prequels came out, of course), and what was neat about it was that the player wanted to remain on the Light Side for most of the character, but really was seduced by the Dark Side in the form of the GM.

It was damn cool to watch.

To complete his decent to the Dark Side, the GM set the player (and the rest of the group) into a master scheme set out by Darth Vader. The end of the campaign was a real downer, like the ending of The Empire Strikes Back, but, man, it was one of the best campaigns I've ever played. Darth's plan was brilliant. He won, and all the Rebel Heroes were captured, with the one Force User falling to the Dark Side--and it was his unknowing actions (he thought he was doing the right thing with a moral choice that took him to the Dark Side, not unlike, years later, when we viewed Anakin in the film being seduced because of his wife).

There were plans for a second campaign in which the Dark Side character actually became Darth's apprentice--and the major villian in the second campaign, but, alas, that one never got off the ground.

Still, that first SW campaign remains one of the best role playing times I've ever had.



Like the above poster, the Force User in the group started off like Luke did in ANH. He had some power, but was not at all "powerful". As time went on (there are 3 or 4 years between ANH and TESB, when Luke grows in power) the Force User grew, first into a strong character, then into a real bad-ass.

It took time. But, once he got up there, there was no stopping this guy. And, the Dark Side even made him stronger.

Something you must never, ever forget about Star Wars d6 is when it came out: in the Star Wars Dark Times, when absolutely nothing official was being produced. These guys weren't just using canon, they were making it. Is it by accident that The guy who wrote The Guide to the Star Wars Universe (still in print by the way) is now in charge of R&D at WotC? And what resource did Timothy Zahn use when he started to write The Thrawn Trilogy? Star Wars d6.

This is very true. The WEG Star Wars writers created a lot of canon. Zahn didn't create those Rebel cruisers from Dark Side Rising. They were already in the game. The same goes for a lot of vehicles, equipment, and story background.

You'll also find that a lot of the same designers and writers continued to work on the various games, regardless of edition.

 

[Katana_Geldar]

Bill Slavisek, Michael Stackpole, Pablo Hidego all wrotefor the Star Wars Roleplaying game.

Except for Aaron Allston, he wrote for D&D.

 

[Water Bob]

Bill Slavisek, Michael Stackpole, Pablo Hidego all wrotefor the Star Wars Roleplaying game.

Except for Aaron Allston, he wrote for D&D.

Yes, I remember being amazed at the quality of the books and supplements. Not only did they look good (great presentaton and production value) but there was quality material brimming out of almost every supplement I picked up.

Even the magazine for the rpg. You'd expect stories and articles by fans of the game, like many mags dedicated to particular rpgs. No, not with the SW Adventure Journal. Those were all like game supplements with original stories by Tim Zahn, Mike Stackpole, and other published authors.

 

[Katana_Geldar]

How Pablo got his job with WEG is a story you should ask for whenever you get to see him as it's amusing.