D&D 5E Tactics for dealing with Polearm Masters

[Horwath]

For the sake of argument, let's say that creatures experienced with combat have learned and shared tactics for dealing with Polearm Mastery (and sometimes +Sentinel). So what are those tactics? Does the following suggestion work mechanically?

1. Close to 15'
2. Drop prone
3. Crawl to 10' provoking OA (at Disadvantage due to prone)
4. Stand and close to 5'
5. Attack

Orcs should be great at this tactic, due to Aggressive. Right? Any other tactics (I'm asking here for crunch, i.e. options that work on a grid using the game mechanics, not fluff i.e. ways to hand-wave it.)

You mean AoO with advantage due to target of AoO being prone??

Bad tactic.

 

[clearstream]

You mean AoO with advantage due to target of AoO being prone??

Bad tactic.

Prone 10' away (when the AoO is triggered) so applies Disadvantage. Check the condition in the PHB.

 

[clearstream]

Use enemies with a longer reach. Ogres with Pikes, or giants, or whatever. The PC's got a 10 ft reach, use opponents with a 15 ft reach.

Wonderful example of goose meets gander I like it!

 

[Horwath]

Prone 10' away (when the AoO is triggered) so applies Disadvantage. Check the condition in the PHB.

I stand corrected.

I was using logic. Every melee attack has advantage against a prone target.

Houseruled by default.

IMHO if a player makes that tactic in a game I would make sure it's auto crit on AoO just so it does not get a that idea a second time

 

[clearstream]

I feel like this thread is an over reaction from a dm to a player. Just throw a javelin at the er. Dont hate just because of the feat combos. Just realise that there are monster combos that work easier than trying to over think the rules. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. Have a nice day.

Thank you for your feedback but please think about what you are saying. You seem to believe that I hate the feat. What is that based on? I have asked for an exploration of mechanical options to challenge players using the feat. I have done that because understanding a wider range of options will support more variety at the table. I feel like that will be far more fun than committing to ranged attacks all the time. What monster combos are you thinking of?

 

[clearstream]

I stand corrected.

I was using logic. Every melee attack has advantage against a prone target.

Houseruled by default.

IMHO if a player makes that tactic in a game I would make sure it's auto crit on AoO just so it does not get a that idea a second time

I was picturing sliding in under the polearm baseball style! A more realistic way to picture it could be coming in low with weapon angled and raised to deflect the polearm upward.

If you want to house rule that way, you could consider also limiting the effectiveness of polearms in close. At present only Lance suffers such a penalty, but historically swordsmen countered polearms by moving in under their reach. Or two-handed swordsmen countered them by chopping them. So add that too? It's a slippery slope, once you react to some one thing that offends you! Where do you draw the line? I feel like one risks cherry picking. The Polearm Master gets a clear and powerful mechanical advantage: it is logical that they suffer the mechanical disadvantages. If you alleviate the mechanical disadvantages, then could I contend that you are doing so not as a matter of "logic" but of offense against your personal fluff.

 

[Horwath]

I was picturing sliding in under the polearm baseball style! A more realistic way to picture it could be coming in low with weapon angled and raised to deflect the polearm upward.

If you want to house rule that way, you could consider also limiting the effectiveness of polearms in close. At present only Lance suffers such a penalty, but historically swordsmen countered polearms by moving in under their reach. Or two-handed swordsmen countered them by chopping them. So add that too? It's a slippery slope, once you react to some one thing that offends you! Where do you draw the line? I feel like one risks cherry picking. The Polearm Master gets a clear and powerful mechanical advantage: it is logical that they suffer the mechanical disadvantages. If you alleviate the mechanical disadvantages, then could I contend that you are doing so not as a matter of "logic" but of offense against your personal fluff.

They have mechanical disadvantage. it's 2d6 vs. 1d10 damage.

I know it is not alot. I would rather go with same damage(2d6) and give disadvantage on attacks within 5ft or something.

being prone vs. huge melee attack is a worst situation you can be. You can get out of the way and even gravity goes against you by giving more damage to the swing between your shoulder blades.

 

[clearstream]

They have mechanical disadvantage. it's 2d6 vs. 1d10 damage.

I know it is not alot. I would rather go with same damage(2d6) and give disadvantage on attacks within 5ft or something.

being prone vs. huge melee attack is a worst situation you can be. You can get out of the way and even gravity goes against you by giving more damage to the swing between your shoulder blades.

They get all tangled up trying to poke you on the floor, negating the benefit of gravity

In my experience, everyone is always able to find fluff that satisfies or offends them. So I like to focus on what the rules allow. Strictly there is no doubt that the rules allow the drop-prone maneuver. Some great suggestions in this thread include giving the same weapon and feat to a creature with greater natural reach, closing behind the cover of a creature that Disengages or Dodges their way in, or positioning Darkness so that you are not visible when you cross into reach. We also have the straightforward proposals of mobbing or using ranged.

I like your suggestion of disadvantage on attacks within 5' but that feels like a subject for another thread. As I'm not trying to fix any mechanics here, only trying to understand what we might be able to do working within them?

 

[Blue]

For the sake of argument, let's say that creatures experienced with combat have learned and shared tactics for dealing with Polearm Mastery (and sometimes +Sentinel). So what are those tactics?

Rush in multiple at once. First in may take a hit, not a huge deal. Reaction used up. Others close and pound.

Really, one attack is not a big deal. Everyone's been afraid of triggering AoO since they came out in 3.0

 

[Caliban]

IMHO if a player makes that tactic in a game I would make sure it's auto crit on AoO just so it does not get a that idea a second time

Yeah, that's some good DM'ing right there. Arbitrary punishment with no warning! Make them pay for trying to be creative!