Targeting "closest enemy" with curses, powers

[Christian]

So my warlock is likely going to be denied one of the most potent tools in his arsenal just about all the time. In 1 square wide corridors, or just about anywhere tight, he will almost never be able to move into position to use the curse, since the tanks will be in there up close and personal, taking up squares that could give the warlock the proximity he needs.

He isn't going to be denied use of it, he'll just be limited to using it on the lesser opponents until they're cleared out. This is another cinematic flavor thing--the heroes rarely get to skip the mooks. You've got to blast some stormtroopers before you get to fight Darth Vader! And the 4E expectations are for airy spaces for combat encounters; there should usually be some means to curse your enemy of choice, if you try hard enough ...

 

[Nifft]

Your ability has a counter-measure.

You must be smart in order to get the best use of your abilities.

Cheers, -- N

 

[AGFlynn]

First point: There are no warlock powers that only target the nearest enemy except the Warlock's Curse. There are a few that compel the target of the attack to attack the creature nearest to it, but that's it.

Fair enough, but if memory serves there are powers from other classes with a similar descriptor.

Second of all, the reasoning behind this is to reinforce the striker's role as a skirmisher. Warlocks and rangers are supposed to skulk around the edges of the fight and look for targets of opportunity. Being required to curse the nearest enemy encourages that.

Yes I understand that, I'm still having trouble getting the hang of rules that "encourage" things I guess. I like the focus on skirmishing tactics, but I also like choice and this seems a little limited.

That's not a savvy DM, that's a jerk DM. Besides, given the surprisingly decent number of mobility powers and a modicum of intelligent tactics on the warlock's part, it's actually very hard to consistently avoid being cursed. Move around, teleport if you can, ready actions--it's not very hard to curse the target you want.

Heh, jerk DM. Had a few of those. Still can see a DM who wants to keep an important character alive trying to keep him the hell away from the warlock. But the increased short-range movement options should solve some of my concern, to be sure.

This is a prime example of why 4E combats should not take place in one-square wide hallways.

Yeah, but many times they just do.

You can always use it, it might just take a round or two before you can use it on the big target you want to use it on most.

That's what I'm hoping.

They've already errata'd it--to closest enemy you can see. The Curse and the ranger's Hunter's Quarry work exactly as they're meant to, and they do a great job of encouraging tactical gameplay.

I'm OK with "encouraging" but when it starts to look like "forcing" I get uncomfortable. Hey. maybe it's not the case with this one.

 

[blargney the second]

With the Battlefield Archer paragon path, a ranger can quarry the minion AND the boss hiding behind him.

 

[Cadfan]

Dynamic is great, but (and, admittedly, I haven't observed it in play yet) why should you need to "force" a character to keep moving? Just to promote dynamism? I don't see the point in that. Fights are or they aren't dynamic, it's the situation that should determine that, not the rules.

The situation can only do so through interaction with the rules.

In any case, the warlock is like the ninja of spellcasters. He teleports. He gains temp hp to become more durable. He cloaks himself in shadows as he moves, and with skill even vanishes fully from sight. The game designers wanted to encourage dynamic combat, so they gave his magic a special rule- his curse only works on his closest foe. This makes you want to move so that your closest foe is the best target for your attacks. Then, because they wanted to make you enjoy moving around, they gave the warlock a ton of mobility related powers and tricks.

If this were removed, the warlock would turn into an artillery class that sits in the background and fires away. Now, instead, its a tactical skirmisher that strikes from the shadows and fades away. For most of us, this is much more fun to play than would be a character who plants his feet and stays in one place.

 

[unobserved]

Dude, I didn't say it was useless. I implied it was nerfed.

I don't really want to get into semantics, but you clearly wrote:

in many situations I won't be able to use it.

Which is false. Clearly false.

Also, not being able to use it the way you want to use it doesn't make it "nerfed". It just means that it has a use that you choose to ignore.

 

[AGFlynn]

The situation can only do so through interaction with the rules.

In any case, the warlock is like the ninja of spellcasters. He teleports. He gains temp hp to become more durable. He cloaks himself in shadows as he moves, and with skill even vanishes fully from sight. The game designers wanted to encourage dynamic combat, so they gave his magic a special rule- his curse only works on his closest foe. This makes you want to move so that your closest foe is the best target for your attacks. Then, because they wanted to make you enjoy moving around, they gave the warlock a ton of mobility related powers and tricks.

If this were removed, the warlock would turn into an artillery class that sits in the background and fires away. Now, instead, its a tactical skirmisher that strikes from the shadows and fades away. For most of us, this is much more fun to play than would be a character who plants his feet and stays in one place.

Yeah, you're probably right. That's an interesting way of looking at it and I think I'll take that approach to playing the character when I get to take it out the box this week for the first time.

 

[Giryan]

Huh?
the way I see it the biggest advantage to the curse is the bonus you get when the targeted mob dies, in which case, cursing the front line troops and using the bonuses to nuke the back row is the way to use them.
It might be an extra d6 damage but if instead it's an extra +2 to hit each turn that's a much bigger deal.

 

[unobserved]

You can always use it, it might just take a round or two before you can use it on the big target you want to use it on most.

That's what I'm hoping.

How can you be "hoping" that? You're the one playing the character. The power clearly says you can target your closest enemy. Either kill all the minions and target the only guy that's left or stick your neck out and get close to the guy you want to target.

There is no "hoping" that it works that way. That's exactly how it does work.

 

[AGFlynn]

How can you be "hoping" that? You're the one playing the character. The power clearly says you can target your closest enemy. Either kill all the minions and target the only guy that's left or stick your neck out and get close to the guy you want to target.

There is no "hoping" that it works that way. That's exactly how it does work.

I'm hoping that's they way it works, because I have not yet played the damn character, as I said.