My question is, what's the best way to minmax a gish (IE a caster/melee hybrid)? The way I see it, there's a few options using the standard point buy. All of these have high AC and should be quite powerful in melee. The downside is that their off-stats suffer given the MAD nature of gishes.
This gives you 19 ac with mage armour and shield, or if your DM rules mage armour doesn't work with a shield, drop war caster for 20 dex, which results in 18 ac, and an empty hand, or just use studded armour + shield with war caster for 18 ac. If you don't like Drow, you can multiclass as a rogue or something to get rapier proficiency, or use a crappier weapon.
As a favoured soul you get two attacks in melee with a rapier, and full spellcasting progression (+ spells from your favourite cleric tree) with a decent spellcasting stat and high AC. The real crux of this build is quickened spell where you can cast a spell of your choice and still get two melee attacks.
This gives you 18 AC with plate, and a nice chunk of melee damage with a greatsword and great weapon master/great weapon fighter, and full spellcasting ability assuming your DM allows you the simple act of removing your hand from your two hand weapon for a second to cast a spell (you can carry a weapon with one hand). If not, then either get War Caster or don't bother with this option.
This, too, gives you 2 attacks and a spell cast with quickened spell as well as the above class benefits, at the cost of multiclassing and low dex(a good stat).
The downsides of sorcerers in melee is the low HP, although it can be mitigated by a high base AC and the shield/stoneskin spell.
This will give you 2 attacks for 1d8 + dex + hex, and eventually + cha, along with some great gish spells such as armor of Agathys, hellish rebuke, and darkness with the dark vision invocation. 18 AC with the mage armour invocation, and a free hand for casting.
Same as the sorcerer basically except with warlock spells
Warlocks suffer from a heavy reliance on short rests, so it depends on your DM. They have great gish spells though.
19 ac with shield/studded, 20 ac if you find mage armour, 2 attacks, full bard progression, what's not to like?
you're probably noticing a trend here...
Lastly there's eldritch knight, Arcane trickster, and Paladin, those are fairly well defined though, and not very spellcasty for my preference, they are still, however, valid choices.
I'm leaning towards the two sorcerer builds. It's a tough choice between dex or str. Str does a lot of damage in melee, but dex is a really strong stat, and you don't have to multiclass for it, but you have an empty hand since you don't have shield proficiency, and you're also stuck with Drow. You can go Eladrin for shortsword instead, but then you're up +1 int, which is useless and a fairly heavy toll on the MAD gish classes, but then again misty step synergizes really well.
My question is: Which of these is the most powerful?
Are they at all viable compared to full melee classes or ranged casters?
What are the best spells to take when gishing these classes?
Does anyone have other gish builds they'd like to share?
This gives you 19 ac with mage armour and shield, or if your DM rules mage armour doesn't work with a shield, drop war caster for 20 dex, which results in 18 ac, and an empty hand, or just use studded armour + shield with war caster for 18 ac. If you don't like Drow, you can multiclass as a rogue or something to get rapier proficiency, or use a crappier weapon.
As a favoured soul you get two attacks in melee with a rapier, and full spellcasting progression (+ spells from your favourite cleric tree) with a decent spellcasting stat and high AC. The real crux of this build is quickened spell where you can cast a spell of your choice and still get two melee attacks.
This gives you 18 AC with plate, and a nice chunk of melee damage with a greatsword and great weapon master/great weapon fighter, and full spellcasting ability assuming your DM allows you the simple act of removing your hand from your two hand weapon for a second to cast a spell (you can carry a weapon with one hand). If not, then either get War Caster or don't bother with this option.
This, too, gives you 2 attacks and a spell cast with quickened spell as well as the above class benefits, at the cost of multiclassing and low dex(a good stat).
The downsides of sorcerers in melee is the low HP, although it can be mitigated by a high base AC and the shield/stoneskin spell.
This will give you 2 attacks for 1d8 + dex + hex, and eventually + cha, along with some great gish spells such as armor of Agathys, hellish rebuke, and darkness with the dark vision invocation. 18 AC with the mage armour invocation, and a free hand for casting.
Same as the sorcerer basically except with warlock spells
Warlocks suffer from a heavy reliance on short rests, so it depends on your DM. They have great gish spells though.
19 ac with shield/studded, 20 ac if you find mage armour, 2 attacks, full bard progression, what's not to like?
you're probably noticing a trend here...
Lastly there's eldritch knight, Arcane trickster, and Paladin, those are fairly well defined though, and not very spellcasty for my preference, they are still, however, valid choices.
I'm leaning towards the two sorcerer builds. It's a tough choice between dex or str. Str does a lot of damage in melee, but dex is a really strong stat, and you don't have to multiclass for it, but you have an empty hand since you don't have shield proficiency, and you're also stuck with Drow. You can go Eladrin for shortsword instead, but then you're up +1 int, which is useless and a fairly heavy toll on the MAD gish classes, but then again misty step synergizes really well.
My question is: Which of these is the most powerful?
Are they at all viable compared to full melee classes or ranged casters?
What are the best spells to take when gishing these classes?
Does anyone have other gish builds they'd like to share?
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