D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

[S'mon]

Or to quote wikipedia again "The "longsword" type exists in a morphological continuum with the medieval knightly sword and the Renaissance-era Zweihänder." There will never be a "perfect" answer.

I'd agree with wikipedia for spatha to arming sword through to claymore, say, but I'd disagree with that Wikipedia quote when it comes to the actual 16th century Zweihanders - those things bear a lot more kinship to military polearms than they do to any traditional swords. The scale is completely different; the use is different also.

 

[jaelis]

[MENTION=60210]jaelis[/MENTION] #158 6 Pounds is the weight of a 16th century bidenhaender = greatsword of the Landsknechts (Length up to 6 ft)

A normal Longsword (for 2 handed use) would not exceed 3-4 Pounds, especially if designed to be used 1 handed occasionally.

I agree that Gygax's weight number is nonsense, and his terminology was ahistorical. Nonetheless, he offered a fairly detailed definition of a "longsword" in D&D, which has pretty much stuck around. The 5e version is at least a nod in the direction of historical accuracy since it adds 2H capability.

Still both are not Finesse weapons, and a very unfitting weapon for slim elves except you want to imagine your character looking like those grotesque comical
figures in some MMORPGs aka "where is the sword running with the gnome?"

Probably your idea of elves is different from mine. Elves in the Silmarilion didn't fart around with rapiers

 

[Yaarel]

The official ‘light’ property and what some are calling the ‘defensive’ property, seem identical.

In other words, the dagger and the shortsword are both ‘light’ weapons. Therefore, if you wield one in the offhand, it improves your AC by +1.

This helps encourage various reallife fighting styles with a Sword and Shortsword, or two shortswords. (Including viking sword and sax, katana and wakizashi, spatha and gladius, etcetera, two sai, and so on.)

 

[Yaarel]

The Japanese system is clean and matches reallife samples.

Sword (bladelength 2-3 feet)
Longsword (bladelength 3-4 feet, incluing claymore)
Greatsword (bladelength 4+ feet, incluing zweihaender)

 

[jasper]

If you want to know more about swords I suggest
Ewart Oakeshott books. Hans Talhoffer, Stone’s Glossary of Arms and armor, John Clements Renaissance/Medieval Swordsmanship. Note some of the research have made parts of the books out of date.

 

[Yes]

I'm not sure there's a problem with longswords. But as an early magic item to low level players I sometimes award a longsword with the finesse property. If a player ever asks me "Can I buy a "x item" with "y"property", if they got the coin, go to the right place and make some decent rolls I usually let them have what they desire. That's a pretty easy fix for me.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

@Ancalogon maybe the missunderstanding is that i refer to Overall length (contraire to blade length) rather, 48 to 55 inches is not that gros for a longsword.

48 inches actual length seems to be about right for a smallish longsword. Generally I think the accepted* length was to fit just under your armpit.
* Or as close as you get with different styles, different Masters with conflicting opinions on correct length and usage, and multiple centuries of change.

Regarding sword weight, I regard D&D's general overestimation of the weight of a sword due to including the scabbard and such as well.

The Situation your fencing master describes seems strange to me. Why would you want to grab your Opponent and be able to do a thrust at the same time? You got your dagger for these circumstances. If the distance is to Ccose you rather do halfswording and Lever techniques, in all other cases you are glad that your reach establishes distance to your oponent.

Its relatively common in some longsword styles: from the bind you grab your opponent's wrist or arm to prevent their defense as you stab. (More common in later styles where armour was less likely to be worn). Or to grab them in order to throw them to the ground.
They're single techniques designed to be executed to give a decisive advantage rather than the prelude to a grappling match.

The Japanese system is clean and matches reallife samples.

Sword (bladelength 2-3 feet)
Longsword (bladelength 3-4 feet, incluing claymore)
Greatsword (bladelength 4+ feet, incluing zweihaender)

Hmm. Doesn't really fit. That would put the majority of katana into the 'sword' category rather than longsword (which I assume you are meaning 5e D&D longsword definition?)
Length of handle makes a large difference in the functionality of a sword - as per the examples that I gave earlier that used the same blades.

 

[Yaarel]

Hmm. Doesn't really fit. That would put the majority of katana into the 'sword' category rather than longsword (which I assume you are meaning 5e D&D longsword definition?)
Length of handle makes a large difference in the functionality of a sword - as per the examples that I gave earlier that used the same blades.

Katana are obviously not ‘longswords’. Their blades are relatively short, closer to 2 on the 2-3 feet range.

That is part of the reason the katana function as a ‘finesse’ weapon, despite being ‘versatile’.



Reallife examples of a ‘longsword’ have blades ranging from about 3 feet 7 inches to 2 feet 10 inches. It is reasonable to use the Japanese system here, starting the longsword bladelength catagory at 3 feet and up. (Meanwhile the shortest examples split off as the upper end of normative knightly swords that average around 2 feet 6 inches.) The claymore, the bastard sword (epee batarde), and so on are examples of historical longswords.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Regarding how we use terms to denote different styles of swords, I've found this: http://www.thearma.org/SwordForms.html#.WrlOwOgbOSQ to be an excellent resource on the subject.

It's ok to be confused. There is a lot of overlap between the terms.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Katana are obviously not ‘longswords’. Their blades are relatively short, closer to 2 on the 2-3 feet range.

But also heavy.