D&D 5E The best solution for longswords

[Coroc]

[MENTION=6848185]CubicsRube[/MENTION] #74 the longsword may be iconic for D&D but not in history at least not as a war weapon of choice, even though it was in use for many centuries as a

- weapon of war bevor the age of widespread heavy armor (mostly in combination with a shield)

- civilians weapon and Status Symbol because a sword was to be distinguished vs other sideweapons like dagger / axe /hammer which could also be Tools, whereas a sword was purely a weapon.

- BACKUP weapon in war times. Yes. Absolute Backup, unless you refer to the longsword as the two handed aka greatsword. Swords as main weapons in war times became obsolete with the use of chain armor or better, and even padded armor could withstand cuts. Nobody would fight someone in plate armor with a sword, unless he had no other option. You might occasionally use the sword on the battlefield to cut down fleeing unarmored oponents while on horsebeack but that's about it.


But i like your feat, and eventually we Need such a feat for every weapon aka weapon specialisation.

 

[Coroc]

[MENTION=12377]77IM[/MENTION] #79

4) OMG sorry i have to reply to this: A real Long sword (the 50" to 55" variant used mainly two handed) is about 3 Pounds. that is as heavy as a Renaissance rapier. The AD&D Longsword is more akin a bastard sword so about 2,5 Pounds max. If you allow Finesse for rapier then you are not unrealistic to alow it for Longswords.

Draw cuts are the speciality of Katanas and Sabres and the like, Slim curved blades which get an Advantage of the curvature due to the altered effective blade geometry. With a Longsword you preferable stab, and if you cut than you use the last third of the blade with as much force as you can.

6) The longsword is already Special in that everyone has a different Picture of what it looks like weighs and which capabilities it has got, and most of it has nothing to do with history or reality. Other weapons in D&D are simulated and viewed much more close to their historical and RL Counterparts. The worst of it all was that most magic weapons in classical campaigns were longswords so everybody wants one and everybody wants to be proficient with it.

 

[werecorpse]

Rename the d8/d10 versatile slashing sword (currently misnamed longsword) to the broadsword.

Make the longsword a d8 slashing finesse weapon.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

From what I know about Longsword combat at a less than apprentice level, it's mostly keep 2 hands (really 1.5 hands) on it unless you're going to grapple, which includes things like grabbing the arm and pulling so that you can bash someone in the face with the pommel. I know more about fighting with sideswords (which weigh maybe just a bit more than rapiers) and arming swords, and very rarely would you use 2 hands unless you're struggling over leverage which you should probably avoid. Historically and in practice they are different weapons, with different techniques involved.

But D&D mostly abstracts combat and often simplifies it for ease of play and speed to resolve actions. Versatile certainly has a big hole in what it can do in the rules and probably needs both a fighting style and feats to reflect it's use.

 

[77IM]

4) OMG sorry i have to reply to this: A real Long sword (the 50" to 55" variant used mainly two handed) is about 3 Pounds. that is as heavy as a Renaissance rapier. The AD&D Longsword is more akin a bastard sword so about 2,5 Pounds max. If you allow Finesse for rapier then you are not unrealistic to alow it for Longswords.

Draw cuts are the speciality of Katanas and Sabres and the like, Slim curved blades which get an Advantage of the curvature due to the altered effective blade geometry. With a Longsword you preferable stab, and if you cut than you use the last third of the blade with as much force as you can.

I didn't say Versatile Finesse was realistic, I said it "kinda makes sense."

 

[Horwath]

Best solution would be:

make str or dex attack and damage stat for ALL melee weapons.

Make all characters proficient with all weapons.

Give all weapons min str requirement or attack with disadvantage.

More minimum strength requirement more base damage of the weapon.

 

[Mistwell]

Nah, in a campaign with proper environmental challenges, it's easy to see switching it up to keeping an open hand in many situations.

- Needing to carry something heavy for a while
- Needing to hold a torch
- Moving along treacherous terrain, improving balance and holding on to a railing or rope
- Needing to help less athletic characters across a barrier while still keeping a weapon ready
- Needing to provide a threat to a creature to allow a Rogue to get Sneak Attack while doing something else with the spare hand

The game isn't fiddly enough to force this stuff on you mechanically constantly, which I'm thankful for, but characters who role play their interaction with the environment will be doffing and donning a shield quite frequently. Having a weapon that's a bit better in those situations is nice.

Yeah we have an issue with switching torch hands all the time. I think a lot of people hand-waive light, or conveniently forget the penalty to darkvision when there is no light (it sets your passive perception to a -5 penalty). Having a hand free for a torch is sometimes very useful. Having a hand free for a shove or grapple is also sometimes highly useful.

 

[ccs]

Rename the d8/d10 versatile slashing sword (currently misnamed longsword) to the broadsword.

How do you figure it's misnamed?
This is a weapon found in a fictional world, not ours. So yes, in the FR etc there IS such a thing as a Longsword. It measures about xxxx inches long, weighs x, does x damage, & is for some reason the most commonly produced/enchanted form of sword.
It just happens to look similar to assorted weapons from our real world.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

From what I know about Longsword combat at a less than apprentice level, it's mostly keep 2 hands (really 1.5 hands) on it unless you're going to grapple, which includes things like grabbing the arm and pulling so that you can bash someone in the face with the pommel. I know more about fighting with sideswords (which weigh maybe just a bit more than rapiers) and arming swords, and very rarely would you use 2 hands unless you're struggling over leverage which you should probably avoid. Historically and in practice they are different weapons, with different techniques involved.

But D&D mostly abstracts combat and often simplifies it for ease of play and speed to resolve actions. Versatile certainly has a big hole in what it can do in the rules and probably needs both a fighting style and feats to reflect it's use.

Bear in mind that the actual historical longsword would be covered by 5e's Greatsword category. (Its on the light end of the range and uses more thrusting, but its definitely a two-handed weapon.)

Sideswords might be covered by 5e's rapier, or maybe shortsword category, and arming swords would fall solidly into 5e's longswords.

 

[BookBarbarian]

The second problem doesn't bother me because it seems silly to fight with a weapon in one hand and leave your other hand free. But if this was something you wanted, it seems like the obvious fix is to invent a new fighting style for it. I don't feel up to that myself because I can't picture anything sensible that style would do.

What may seem silly to you was an extremely popular method of fighting with a sword.

Longsword fighting methods made liberal use of grappling techniques. In particular, grabbing your opponent and sending him to the ground was a very effective way of fighting some one in heavy armor.

So a weapon that was held in two hands except when grappling is, you know, not silly at all.

[MENTION=6848185]CubicsRube[/MENTION] #74 the longsword may be iconic for D&D but not in history at least not as a war weapon of choice, even though it was in use for many centuries as a

- weapon of war bevor the age of widespread heavy armor (mostly in combination with a shield)

- civilians weapon and Status Symbol because a sword was to be distinguished vs other sideweapons like dagger / axe /hammer which could also be Tools, whereas a sword was purely a weapon.

- BACKUP weapon in war times. Yes. Absolute Backup, unless you refer to the longsword as the two handed aka greatsword. Swords as main weapons in war times became obsolete with the use of chain armor or better, and even padded armor could withstand cuts. Nobody would fight someone in plate armor with a sword, unless he had no other option. You might occasionally use the sword on the battlefield to cut down fleeing unarmored oponents while on horsebeack but that's about it.


But i like your feat, and eventually we Need such a feat for every weapon aka weapon specialisation.

Chain armor in the Dark Ages did have the effect of necessitating changing the tip of swords to a more tapered form, but you could absolutely thrust through chain with it and still use it hack at a more lightly armored opponent.

Thrusting though plate on the other hand was an entire different story. It's interesting to see later swords become increasingly heavy so they transfer more energy through your opponent's plate armor rather than trying to cut at all. Still on the battlefield a poleaxe was much preferred.

Although, D&D Adventuring is not always similar to a medieval battlefield.