D&D 5E The core issue of the martial/caster gap is just the fundamental design of d20 fantasy casters.

[Hussar]

This seems like a strange requirement. This won’t keep the game balanced. It will just ensure that some number of non Spellcasting features are forced half-assed garbage made to fill an arbitrary quota.


Yes? So what?

The two categories of rules objects…serve different purposes. Like there are more magic items than vehicles, too. ‍

He's not entirely wrong though. The non-casters get scraps while the casters get full service. Yes, I agree we don't maybe need as many feats as spells, but, by the same token, we could probably do with a LOT fewer spells.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This seems like a strange requirement. This won’t keep the game balanced. It will just ensure that some number of non Spellcasting features are forced half-assed garbage made to fill an arbitrary quota.

Don't care. Having something is better than next-to-nothing--which is what we got all through 3.x and through the vast majority of 5e.

Spellcasters get spells--usually several--with every major release.

Yes? So what?

The two categories of rules objects…serve different purposes. Like there are more magic items than vehicles, too. ‍

You don't see how there might be an ongoing problem caused by constantly pumping spellcasters full of additional options--especially Wizards, who almost always get access to the new spells--while leaving non-casters in the dust essentially all the time? (Edit: To back up this assertion, I checked. Of the 152 new spells added to 5e--aka more than 15 new spells every year on average!--only 39 are inaccessible to Wizards. Meaning, on average, the Wizard has gotten around 11 new spells per year every year since 5e was published. Of course, almost all of them were in XGtE, with 77 new spells for Wizards. But, the point stands--when spells are added, they're almost always Wizard spells.)

The one and only book that added any new Battle Master maneuvers was Tasha's. In literally a decade of publishing books, we got one book that gave Battle Masters more options. The vast majority of new feats are either race-specific or purely for spellcasters.

One side of this equation is getting the lion's share of the support here, and it isn't the martial side.

 

[ECMO3]

What 13 choices? Race or background only give choices at charges.

choices of 4 skill proficiencies
choice of 4 skills to get expertise in
choice of subclass
choice of 4 feats or ASIs

That is 13 explicit choices you have made as a Rogue-Assasin between 1st and 12th level and that is before you consider the choices made with your false identities, which are really only limited by the available time and gold.

 

[ECMO3]

Whether to MC is a choice you make every time you level?

Yes but it is not a choice provided by your class, so it is not relevant in this discussion (just like the race and background abilities).

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yes? So what?

I‍t's usually not a good thing to starve a large chunk-- apparently the most popular chunk that everyone loves and doesn't have any problems with-- of content.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yes but it is not a choice provided by your class, so it is not relevant in this discussion (just like the race and background abilities).

its a choice of class, but, sure, everyone chooses to MC or not, every level.

choices of 4 skill proficiencies
choice of 4 skills to get expertise in
choice of subclass
choice of 4 feats or ASIs

That is 13 explicit choices you have made as a Rogue-Assasin between 1st and 12th level

TBF, 6 of those choices are made by all classes.

The Wizard chooses 2 skills, subclass, 3 feats (those 6 like everyone else), 5 cantrips and 30 spells, over the same 13 levels.

And, there are, as already mentioned, a lot more spells to choose from than feats and skills, combined.
And, skills, expertise, and ASIs are just numbers, they make you better at things anyone could try, while spells can give you entirely new things to do.

 

[overgeeked]

its a choice of class, but, sure, everyone chooses to MC or not, every level.

TBF, 6 of those choices are made by all classes.

The Wizard chooses 2 skills, subclass, 3 feats (those 6 like everyone else), 5 cantrips and 30 spells, over the same 13 levels.

And, there are, as already mentioned, a lot more spells to choose from than feats and skills, combined.
And, skills, expertise, and ASIs are just numbers, they make you better at things anyone could try, while spells can give you entirely new things to do.

That's really funny.

A: "Yeah, of course rogues get choices every level. They get about 13 of them every single level."

B: "What choice is that?"

A: "The choice to keep being a rogue or switch to another class."

B: "..."

 

[Tony Vargas]

It's one choice from up to 13 options, depending on stats, every level.

One funny thing about 3.x/5e MCing is that it raises the bar on class balance. It makes the first level of a new class a choice with the same weight as the next level of your current class.

 

[overgeeked]

A: "Hey, listen. I can't help you if you keep choosing to suck. When you stop being stubborn and pick a class with actual choices every level...like the cough casters cough...then we can talk."

 

[Tony Vargas]

Choosing to suck is a meaningful choice..