The Original Titans (3.5)

[Khisanth the Ancient]

I'm going to try to stat out the original titans from Greek mythology. (I'm doing them in 3.5 because U_K might make 4e versions and because I'm more familiar with it.)

I'm thinking the "First Generation" titans (Cronus, Coeus, etc) will be upper end Colossal to Titanic, and will be in the Greater Deity-Old One HD range (100-200 HD), getting Sidereal HD (d100s) and Elder One level divine bonuses (+24). The "Second Generation" titans (Prometheus, Atlas, etc.) will be Gargantuan to Colossal, and will be in the Demi-deity - Intermediate Deity HD range (30-70 HD), getting Immortal HD (d20s) and Lesser Deity level divine bonuses (+8). All have Maven + Omnicompetent.

Prometheus
The Firebringer
Size/Type: Gargantuan Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Fire)
Hit Dice: 30d20+420 (1020 hp)
Initiative: +22
Speed: 80 ft.
Armor Class: 37 (-4 size, +6 Dex, +15 natural, +2 insight, +8 divine), touch 12, flat-footed 29
Base Attack/Grapple: +30/+60
Attack: Godcleaver +57 melee (4d6+32 and 3d6 fire/19-20/x3) or searing bolt +40 ranged touch (15d6)
Full Attack: Godcleaver +57/+52/+47/+42 melee (4d6+32 and 3d6 fire/19-20/x3) or searing bolt +40 ranged touch (15d6)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Searing bolt, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Change shape, damage reduction 15/lawful (3/-), divine bonus, darkvision 60 ft., maven/omnicompetent, perfection of foresight, spell resistance 38
Saves: Fort +39, Ref +33, Will +38
Abilities: Str 47, Dex 22, Con 39, Int 35, Wis 37 (32 without Jewel), Cha 33 (28 without Jewel)
Skills: All skills +41 + ability modifier
Feats: Awesome Blow, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Power Attack, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (fire storm)
Epic Feats: Blinding Speed, Damage Reduction, Superior Initiative
Alignment: Chaotic good


Prometheus, while lesser than most of the other titans, is one of the cleverest of them and a benefactor of mankind. He brought fire to humanity and was punished for it by Zeus; when Zeus relented, Prometheus was freed by Heracles and the two were reconciled.

Prometheus appears as a gigantic man about 36 feet tall, usually clad in Greek style. He is rarely armed, but when he must fight, he does so with an enormous axe.


Searing Bolt (Su): Prometheus can hurl bolts of divine flame against foes. Range 1600 ft., requires a ranged touch attack to hit, deals 15d6 damage; half is fire damage, half is divine damage.

Spell-like Abilities: At will—chain lightning (DC 35), charm monster (DC 33), cure critical wounds (DC 33), daylight, fireball (DC 32), fire storm (DC 36), greater dispel magic, hold monster (DC 34), holy smite (DC 33), invisibility, invisibility purge, levitate, persistent image (DC 34), remove curse (DC 33), scorching ray; 3/day—delayed blast fireball (DC 36), etherealness, word of chaos (DC 36), summon nature’s ally IX; 1/day—gate, greater restoration, maze, meteor swarm (DC 38). Caster level 30th (32nd with fire spells so long as he wears The Stolen Flame). The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Divine Bonus: As the equivalent of a lesser deity, Prometheus benefits from a +8 divine bonus.

Perfection of Foresight: Prometheus benefits from a permanent foresight effect (cannot be flat-footed or surprised, +2 insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves) and can use the benefits of moment of prescience (+25 insight bonus to single attack roll, ability or skill check, saving throw, or AC against a single attack) once per day, both at 30th caster level.

Artifacts:
Godslicer: +5 adamantine keen battleaxe of Gargantuan size, can cut through any substance (enhancement bonus is treated as +10 when used to sunder). This is the same axe used by Prometheus to split Zeus' skull to allow Athena to escape.

The Stolen Flame: A flame preserved in an indestructible strand bound around his brows, which nevertheless resembles an ordinary plant stem, this item gives the Firebringer great powers over flame. While he wears it any weapon he wields or melee attack he makes has the fiery blast weapon special ability (+3d6 fire damage, multiplied on critical hits), and any spell-like abilities or spells with the fire descriptor are used at +2 caster levels.

Jewel of Primeval Knowledge: An artifact older than the gods, this jewel gives Prometheus a +5 bonus to all his mental ability scores so long as it is worn.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Khisanth mate!

I'm going to try to stat out the original titans from Greek mythology. (I'm doing them in 3.5 because U_K might make 4e versions and because I'm more familiar with it.)

I have been pondering over how I would handle the Titans, and by extension the Primordials in 4E, since the release of the edition. I have a fairly interesting framework in place but I imagine I'll change that before I take a crack at doing a full hierarchical breakdown (which may possibly be in Angels & Devils).

I like the idea that a given Primordial (and I use that term to distinguish it from the 4E term for Titan) being the progenitor of their own race...sometimes perhaps the Titans (or even giants) of one race may become the progenitors of another 'lesser' race.

For me the main annoyance of 4E giants/titans (etc.) is the level difference between Giants/Titans and Primordials.

If I was going to detail Surtur in 4E then I am somewhat hamstrung by the Levels of the Fire Giant (L18) and Fire Titan (L21 Elite). Given that there is an extreme limit of +/-5 Levels in 4E we have a theoretical limit of Level 28 Solo for Surtur. Also the extreme limit is not very satisfying, so really you want to be looking at a +/-3 limit spread. ie. the difference between the lowest level monster and the highest. So the boundaries for Surtur really shrink to Level 24 Solo.

Of course a Level 24 Surtur would be rubbish, so its clear that the monsters would not exist in the same encounter. That leaves us with a number of options:

1. Use the Unit/Army rules within the Vampire Bestiary (quick plug).
2. Create new 'higher level' Fire Giants for Surtur's personal realm (or wholly different monsters?)
3. Create a wholly new race of Giants (to which Surtur is the Primordial), of which the Fire Giants are merely offshoots.

The best method is probably some blending of all three.

Anyway, sorry for rambling, didn't want to derail your thread.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

I like the idea that a given Primordial (and I use that term to distinguish it from the 4E term for Titan) being the progenitor of their own race...sometimes perhaps the Titans (or even giants) of one race may become the progenitors of another 'lesser' race.

Makes sense.

Ymir* or Thrudgelmir - Frost Giants, Surtur - Fire Giants, ??? - Stone Giants. Hill giants may be offshoots of any of these which have lived in 'less magical' areas (closer to human lands rather than in Jotunheim/Muspellheim type realms?) and thus the elemental connection, innate magic, and intelligence have faded; ogres might be an even further diminution.

*Ymir could also be the ancestor of all giants.

2. Create new 'higher level' Fire Giants for Surtur's personal realm (or wholly different monsters?)
3. Create a wholly new race of Giants (to which Surtur is the Primordial), of which the Fire Giants are merely offshoots.

I would say this is best; the 'frost giants' and 'fire giants' of Norse myth are significantly more powerful than the D&D monsters based on them, being suitable foes for the gods. So perhaps "Inferno Titans" for Surtur and "Glacial Titans" for Ymir?

Oh and how big would Surtur be in 4e? I always imagined him as very huge, Godzilla scale... Ymir was supposed to be bigger than Earth, as it was made from part of his body.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello there!

Makes sense.

Ymir* or Thrudgelmir - Frost Giants, Surtur - Fire Giants, ??? - Stone Giants. Hill giants may be offshoots of any of these which have lived in 'less magical' areas (closer to human lands rather than in Jotunheim/Muspellheim type realms?) and thus the elemental connection, innate magic, and intelligence have faded; ogres might be an even further diminution.

*Ymir could also be the ancestor of all giants.

At the last count I think I had at least a dozen new giant types, one of which is detailed in the Vampire Bestiary.

I would say this is best; the 'frost giants' and 'fire giants' of Norse myth are significantly more powerful than the D&D monsters based on them, being suitable foes for the gods. So perhaps "Inferno Titans" for Surtur and "Glacial Titans" for Ymir?

Or Phaethons and Xixecal?

Oh and how big would Surtur be in 4e? I always imagined him as very huge, Godzilla scale... Ymir was supposed to be bigger than Earth, as it was made from part of his body.

Well I'm thinking probably Mega-sized. Then again he is a big Volcano-y monster so maybe even Giga-sized would be appropriate.

I'll talk more about it after the Vampire Bestiary release but I think the new sizes are more about coming up with new ideas rather than just creating bigger monsters (all will be revealed and explained when you have that book don't worry).

...oh and the Twin Wight stats are up.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

At the last count I think I had at least a dozen new giant types, one of which is detailed in the Vampire Bestiary.

Living giants, or undead giants?

Or Phaethons and Xixecal?

Phaethons are kind of blobby, more like Lava-Shoggoths than giants. (And I'd rather not mix Greek myth references too badly.)

Xixecal would indeed be a good Ice type, but The Plane Below has a 4e Xixecal presented as an unique abomination (though there are supposed to be 'lesser' xixecals too). Also, I'm not sure it's powerful enough; if Ymir is Sidereal (=Elder One equiv like Surtur? or more?) then shouldn't his Titans be Immortal Tier foes.

Well I'm thinking probably Mega-sized. Then again he is a big Volcano-y monster so maybe even Giga-sized would be appropriate

And Ymir (planet size) would be Tera-sized?

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Atlas
Sky-Upholder
Size/Type: Colossal Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 70d20+1540 (2940 hp)
Initiative: +19
Speed: 100 ft. (20 squares)
Armor Class: 73 (-8 size, +3 Dex, +60 natural, +8 divine), touch 13, flat-footed 70
Base Attack/Grapple: +70/+124
Attack: Peak-Breaking Club +123 melee (15d10+71 and 3d6 sonic/19-20) or thrown boulder +73 ranged (8d6+38)
Full Attack: Peak-Breaking Club +123/+118/+113/+108 melee (15d10+71 and 3d6 sonic/19-20) or thrown boulder +73 ranged (8d6+38)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Oversized weapon, rock throwing/rock catching, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/-, divine bonus, darkvision 60 ft., maven/omnicompetent, spell resistance 78, 1 virtual size category
Saves: Fort +75, Ref +56, Will +60
Abilities: Str 87 (67 without Sky-Lifter's Belt), Dex 16, Con 55, Int 12, Wis 24, Cha 27
Skills: All skills +81 + ability modifier
Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (club), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (club)
Epic Feats: Damage Reduction (x5), Dire Charge, Greater Power Attack, Overwhelming Critical (club), Power Attack Mastery, Superior Initiative
Divine Abilities: Superior Power Attack
Alignment: Chaotic neutral (evil tendencies)

Atlas is one of the more savage and wild titans, and the largest and strongest of the second-generation titans. He is currently imprisoned by being petrified into a mountainous stone, and will not be encountered unless released; but if returned to normal life, he would be as great a threat as ever.

Atlas is often described as holding up the sky; however, this function is also attributed to another Titan, Coeus.

He is monstrously muscled and stands about 85 feet tall, armed with a rough-hewn stone club which, despite its crude appearance, is a mighty magical weapon.

Oversized Weapon: Atlas wields a Titanic greatclub without penalty.

Rock Throwing (Ex): Atlas can hurl enormous rocks or other similarly shaped sturdy objects (Gargantuan objects) as thrown weapons, with a range increment of 500 feet.

Rock Catching (Ex): Atlas can catch Small to Titanic rocks (or projectiles of similar shape).

Once per round, if Atlas would normally be hit by a rock, he can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small rock, 20 for a Medium one, and so on up to 35 for a Gargantuan one. (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.) Atlas must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a rock catching attempt.

Spell-like Abilities: At will—chain lightning (DC 32), chaos hammer (DC 30), greater dispel magic, levitate; 1/day—etherealness, mass bull's strength. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Divine Bonus: As the equivalent of a lesser deity, Atlas benefits from a +8 divine bonus.

Artifacts:
Peak-Breaking Club: +14 mighty cleaving sonic blast greatclub of Titanic size, made of superdense Elemental Plane of Earth stone (treat as 0.0004% orichalcum alloy; multiplies damage by 1.5x).

Sky-Lifter's Belt: Grants Tensegrity to its wearer, as well as acting as a belt of epic strength +20.

Unbreakable Skin Amulet: An amulet of epic natural armor +25.

 

[Kerrick]

I meant to ask before: What's maven/omnicompetent?

And where's Atlas' CR?

 

[Upper_Krust]

I meant to ask before: What's maven/omnicompetent?

Those are abilities from Ascension, which (IIRC) mean your skills are maximized (Maven) and that you have all Skills (Omnicompetent).

And where's Atlas' CR?

Atlas got lost...ironically.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Living giants, or undead giants?

Correct.

Phaethons are kind of blobby, more like Lava-Shoggoths than giants. (And I'd rather not mix Greek myth references too badly.)

Phaethons should really be Abominations of the Sun God rather than Fire Gods, but I was just using that name as an example.

Xixecal would indeed be a good Ice type, but The Plane Below has a 4e Xixecal presented as an unique abomination (though there are supposed to be 'lesser' xixecals too). Also, I'm not sure it's powerful enough; if Ymir is Sidereal (=Elder One equiv like Surtur? or more?) then shouldn't his Titans be Immortal Tier foes.

Its an interesting dilemma, but one I am on the cusp of solving.

And Ymir (planet size) would be Tera-sized?

Possibly. The top Primordials might be planet sized...though I don't necessarily consider Ymir amongst the top.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

And where's Atlas' CR?

Not sure; you may notice Prometheus lacks one as well

Any suggestions?