The power of a curse

[James the Newbie]

So I'm new to D&D, I have played for about a year, and I tend to dip in and out of different books, reading one through I just cant do it :/

(I am 3.5 e)

Anyway there is a burning question I was wondering about cursed items

If a player wanted to make a magicaly cursed item using wish (not totaly unreasonable) and further more wanted to use that item, how would you begin to calculate the XP cost if the curse is "Player changes race" curse.

Because obviously curses Aren't counted as a benefit I've seen nothing on the obvious cost it would need for this.

The real thing about this item, is it would let a pc take any race, the one that causes a nice big unbalance I was thinking is a mind flayer, since that wouldnt make your character a god, but it would give you a pretty cool set of bonus'

But then I thought about how a character could become a tarrasque using this method.

It isn't a huge issue, as no player has thought of it in my group, but I wanted to entertain this idea a bit.

(Note: I am asking, beyond common sense, what stops this working, since I feel ive missed something)

Also any basic DM tips are appreciated a lot.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Is your question specifically about the xp price of using a cursed magical item that changes race...

...or are you asking for different methods of chaging one's race in addition to a cursed item that does so? Because I can think of some easier ways to change one's race.

Reincarnate spell comes to mind.

Also, just using that Wish spell to change your race might simplify your cursed item idea.

With all this said, I'd have no idea how to calculate the xp into such an item.

 

[James the Newbie]

Sorry.

What I am wondering is about the legality AND xp of this item

the thing about the ring is, it doesn't actually change your 'effective level' as its not a permanent change. So no slower levelling from levelling up. This means you could be in a party of 4 an be VERY unbalanced if you took a ring of mind flayer (ok there a race I'm enjoying the look of right now) or Tarasque or Chromatic dragon.

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Me as a player perspective:
The original idea was a bag of magic rings for this character, let you be very versatile, and have a feat to make swapping rings a free action (Not too unreasonable).

Then I Stumbled upon the cursed item section of the DM's guide, and found I could become any race

to some degree its fair and fun, change to a gariloon for strength, a Pegasus for speed and such, be fairly powerful but function well in a party (And struggle to remove the ring sadly)

Then I added the idea to a mind flayer making it less balanced, but workable, a strong race, not too domineering or making my fighter feel worthless.

And at last a tarasque (Chromatic dragon if you want something stronger). This means I could beat just about anything, and leave my party feeling bored.

----------

I am wondering, would you allow these rings in the first place, and what would you guys charge for them? Since there 'technically a bad thing' so 'should' be much cheaper than a normal ring. The other benefit is because its wish, you could add these effects to an already magic ring.

Largly I am asking as I am considering making a faction who works based on the idea they can use a ring to improve their challenge rating in combat. They would peruse looking for rare creatures, and would attack an adventurer who was going to kill one before they could study the creatures, letting my PC's get some good rings.

But I need to price these rings and consider the long term effects of giving my PC's a ring that gives them some massive stat boosts and versatility.

 

[James the Newbie]

The rings unique advantage is you can be 'every race' ofcourse.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[Loonook]

So they're back-door curseplementing? Yes, this is totally a curse to gain the powers of a mindflayer for free...

No, no, a thousand times no.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[James the Newbie]

Edit:

*face palm* clicked reply in the wrong topic

-Feels like an idiot-

The issue with having tabs open.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I am wondering, would you allow these rings in the first place, and what would you guys charge for them? Since there 'technically a bad thing' so 'should' be much cheaper than a normal ring. The other benefit is because its wish, you could add these effects to an already magic ring.

I think the idea of trying to take a Curse, which by definition is supposed to be a bad, unwanted effect, and modify it to become a benefitial, controlled effect, obviously betrays the intention of the word "Curse". What you are suggesting is not "Technically a bad thing" since you're creating the entire device to be a benefit, not a curse. This should be an expensive item.

I'm not sure of any DM that would allow this, as a Curse.

Now, if you want to create a race-changing property that gives you control of what you can become and put it into a ring, it sounds like you're looking for a Ring of Polymorph. If that is what you are asking for, we have a number of mathmatically clever indivudals who can break down the details of how to use the Forge Ring feat to put such a spell into a ring. I think @Greenfield knows something of this, as well as some other people here.

(With all that said, I still try to get away with manufacturing Dust of Sneezing and Choking, so I guesss I'm a hypocrite)

 

[Greenfield]

More like a ring of Shapechange, without any of the limits.

So, start thinking Epic level item, whether that item is a single ring of a bag of rings. Become the Tarrasque? Definitely Epic.

Where would the Curse aspect come? Most commonly a cursed ring is one you won't or can't take off. That doesn't sound like what you're talking about.

The other "cursed" item is one with a defect or unwanted side effect. That also doesn't sound like what you're describing.

The third type is the kind where the power of the item can't really be controlled. Classically items like "cursed" scrolls would be examples, in that they invoke the spell on them normally, but when you start to look at them, rather than when you try to cast from them.

What yo seem to be looking for is the item that "accidentally" grants you huge power whenever you want it, that goes away when the power is inconvenient, and is a "curse" only in that it costs less to make.

The phrase that comes to mind is Dispel BS!

Now, what would the ring cost? An individual ring with Polymorph on it would be 5x9x2000 for a ring with the 5th level spell Polymnorph on it. I'd allow up to a 10% discount if the ring always shifted you to the same form. But remember, you only get that form for a short time, 9 rounds, if I recall correctly.

And, of course, buy each ring seprately.

Want to convert to something with more levels/hit dice than your character does? That sounds like Shape Change, a 9th level spell with a 17th level caster requirement. For that, the cost is 9x17x2000 per ring, minus the discount for the single form again.

Now you want to craft them with Wish? Not a problem, though it might take several. A Wish is supposed to have a limit on what it can make, and remember the Exp cost of 5,000 per Wish cast.

It gets real ugly, real fast. And a lot of things, like turning into a Tarrasque, are decidedly Epic. Turning into the Chromatic Dragon will likely be Epic, and will probably draw the ire of Tiamat, which is a problem in it's own right.

As a DM I wouldn't allow most of the rings you seem to want. Your own DM is, of course, free to disagree.

 

[jefgorbach]

Cursed items are no diffent than any other magical item, so would have a cost based upon the spell used to create the desired effect.

Afaik RAW doesnt cover creating cursed items so would consider the inability to drop/remove the item akin to requiring a specific alignment/class and reduce the final cost by 30%.

The critical consideration would be whether the ring merely grants the APPEARANCE of the desired race in which case its simply a Ring of Delusion(race) or actually transforms the wearer into the specific race via shapechange/polymorph (and how many, if any, changes the Player can do before the current form becomes permanent).

 

[James the Newbie]

What I was looking at is the rather vauge curse 'change race' in the Dungeon masters Guide.

I imagine the initial curse was intended to be something like 'become horse' or an equally irritating thing. It is in the 'drawback' section, the whole section claiming it only works 'while worn'

I obviously see major issues allowing this, as any sane minded person would, but I did start to wonder about price.

That said, I have a limited understanding and do want to get better grips with the game.