The Power of Friendship!

[Sgt_Shock]

I'm here to ask the limitations of Skill Cooperation. It says in the PHB

"In some situations, you and your allies can work

together to use a skill; your allies can help you make
a skill check by making a check themselves. Each
ally who gets a result of 10 or higher gives you a +2
bonus to your check. Up to four allies can help you,
for a maximum bonus of +8."​

It says in the passage above it that ​

"When you’re not in a rush, not being threatened or distracted
(when you’re outside an encounter), and when
you’re dealing with a mundane task, you can choose
to take 10."​

So, the question is, can your allies take tens on their assist checks, provided they aren't rushed, etc.? This would effectively give the party a guaranteed +8 to some out-of-combat skill checks in most situations, would it not? For instance, Knowledge (X) checks or Open Lock?​

 

[Flipguarder]

I would say that the check the allies are making would be deemed an "assist ally check" which basically just means roll a d20 and hope it's above 9. I would rule that since the allies are not actually rolling a skill check, they can't take 10.

 

[DracoSuave]

I would rule that since the allies are not actually rolling a skill check, they can't take 10.

I would rule that the assist ally check says -explicitly- that it is a skill check, and therefore, it is a skill check.

Also, skill challenges are encounters, so take 10 doesn't apply.

 

[Flipguarder]

I would rule that the assist ally check says -explicitly- that it is a skill check, and therefore, it is a skill check.

It really really does not... That may be how you read it, but it EXPLICITLY says the ally makes a check. It does not say they make a skill check themselves. Also , if it were a skill check than anyone above level 20 automatically succeeds at assist checks (due to the +10 1/2 level bonus, and the check dc being consistently 10), which is just silly.

Also, skill challenges are encounters, so take 10 doesn't apply.

I don't think anyone mentioned skill challenges.

 

[Sgt_Shock]

Well, if Jim the cleric is rolling a knowledge religion check and his bud is assisting him, shouldn't his friend be able to give him more help if he's, say, an Invoker with knowledge of religion himself, rather than a rogue? Or a level 20 Hero vs. a level 1 commoner? My point is, the 1d20 rolled for assists SHOULD count levels and skill ranks.

Is it really that silly?

 

[Flipguarder]

Is it really that silly?

Yes because anyone trained in a skill above level 10 automatically succeeds. Anyone level 20 or above automatically succeeds.

Automatically succeeding at something so easily is silly in my opinion.

 

[Sgt_Shock]

A level 20 character is a veteran to the mundane tasks a party might encounter. I see no reason why they couldn't contribute to someone's skill check in any situation. Why are automatic successes so "silly"? Are you just so used to having roll a d20 to get something done that you've forgotten what skill ranks are for? In real life, groups faced with obstacles contribute to overcome them. And each time, some members of the group contribute more than others -- These would be the ones who are more experienced in the endeavor at hand. Denying a player his character's specialties, training, and experiences during a combined skill check is much more deserving of the title "silly", in my opinion.

 

[Flipguarder]

A level 20 character is a veteran to the mundane tasks a party might encounter. I see no reason why they couldn't contribute to someone's skill check in any situation. Why are automatic successes so "silly"? Are you just so used to having roll a d20 to get something done that you've forgotten what skill ranks are for? In real life, groups faced with obstacles contribute to overcome them. And each time, some members of the group contribute more than others -- These would be the ones who are more experienced in the endeavor at hand. Denying a player his character's specialties, training, and experiences during a combined skill check is much more deserving of the title "silly", in my opinion.

Silly: In an arcana check to determine the precise location, duration, and creator of a portal, a level 20 fighter with absolutley 0 training in portals or arcana in general automatically helps the skill check.

 

[Sgt_Shock]

The above situation is justifiable. A level 20 Fighter has certainly encountered arcane influence in his career before, therefore it is possible to have learned enough to contribute. Training isn't always skill ranks, as 4th edition loves to stress.

With your ruling, however, a level 20 Wizard contributes the same amount of information to said situation as a level 1 Manure Scraper. There is something terribly wrong with that xD.

 

[Flipguarder]

The above situation is justifiable. A level 20 Fighter has certainly encountered arcane influence in his career before, therefore it is possible to have learned enough to contribute. Training isn't always skill ranks, as 4th edition loves to stress.

With your ruling, however, a level 20 Wizard contributes the same amount of information to said situation as a level 1 Manure Scraper. There is something terribly wrong with that xD.

We disagree.... oh well.