D&D 5E Things through all the playtests I have not liked

[Sadrik]

If I undrstand your suggestion, Sardrik, a spotter rolls against a dc and the skill of the opponent would have little effect. I want my character to have a much harder time noticing Grisendorf the master assassin sent to eliminate my troublesome character, than Blarb, the orc with the peg leg that I pissed off at the bar. It doesn't really make sense that it would be equally difficult to spot both of them. The "trained sneaker" is going to know how to mitigate hindrances and make the most of opportunities and should "realistically' be harder to see.

Yes the trained sneaker is more concerned about where he is sneaking rather than who is sneaking. So for instance, if Grisendorf is sneaking in a brightly lit room, it may be very difficult for him to sneak. If Grisendorf is sneaking in a dark cave it is very easy. The sneak check only tells if the sneaker successfully hid in the terrain. Blarb on the other hand is not trained in sneaking and has a very low DEX. He is going to have an extreme time (if not impossible time) hiding in the lit room and may even have difficulty hiding in the dark cave.

The thing that feels different here is that the spotter is not opposing a pure skill roll. The spotters Arbon the keen and Shump one-eyed is opposing how hidden in the terrain both Grisendorf and Blarb are. In the brightly lit room it might be pretty easy for Arbon and Shump to spot either one. In the dark cave it might be nearly impossible to see, but Arbon the keen might be able to figure out where Blarb is.

Of course there could be modifiers to the spotting roll, I could see a rogue having a hide in shadows feature that gives spotters a penalty to seeing them. Things like invisibility and blindness would give a penalty to spot as well. In essence this is a surprise roll. So all the factors that come into a surprise roll would come into play here too.
Distance
Hidden/not hidden
Lit/shadows/dark (dark could be invisible and blind too)
Concealment/cover

Surprise rolls are the same as this spot roll concept. This just broadens to sneaking, and gets rid of the swingy nature of opposed rolls and kills the outlier problem in one fell swoop.

As far as +40 outliers, I think it would be simpler to just keep a tight reign on the math.

Keeping the math tight only mitigates one factor. The other one is the swingyness of opposed rolls. Again think of the example where spell DCs are opposed rolls. The caster casts a spell and rolls a 20 so the the DC is impossible to beat or the caster rolls a 1 and the DC is an autopass. Opposed rolls are not good, in every case, even the arm wrestle.

 

[katcitrus]

In terms of sneaking and perception checks, I think it's up to the GM. I think DC is useful in that it gives you a starting point, but the GM can give you a bonus if she thinks you deserve it, and the opposing NPC might have a bonus as well. Straight opposed roles are way too unpredictable, and unrealistic (please don't point out this is a pretend world; realism in some things is helpful to develop suspension of disbelief for the rest of the pretend world). If you just used opposed rolls, you could theoretically see the god of stealth in a shadowed alley on a moonless night.

 

[Ahrimon]

Racial damage bonuses. It is unnecessary. For me it is enough to say dwarves like hafted weapons. It does not need to be hard coded into the system and force a players acceptance of those weapons for that race. And why do only PC races get it? It just needs to go.

I agree, I've been against this one from the beginning. Racial weapons and armor should be a NPC flavor thing. PC's aren't typical members of their race unless the player wants them to be and then they can build them like that if they're so inclined.

1d6 damage reduction for being drunk, please just remove this. Add temporary HP if you think people have to be able to take more damage while drunk.

I'm indifferent on this one.

Contested rolls, they are too random. Opposed rolls should be against the save of the opponent. both roll. if one succeeds and another fails there is a victor. If both fail it continues, if both succeed it continues. This is really key in the arena of stealth.

I don't mind the contested rolls.

The HD dice pool. I am not sold that the added complication generates that much added benefit. Just say you can heal up to your HP total per day. Have 20 HP you can heal 20 HP per day. You need to initiate a heal with a short rest and binding wounds as usual.

I prefer the 4e approach, but I don't mind HD that much. I plan to tweak the HP system anyway. I'm leaning toward a hybrid 4e/next system. Con score + (HD or HD average) = starting HP. Lvl + Con mod (min 1) HD for healing.

Coupe de Grace: two hits kills anything. this is extremely weak vs. low HP monsters and extremely good vs. high HP monsters. There needs to be a scale in there or at minimum a save, or something. IDK what but something.

Indifferent here because I haven't tried it out yet.

INT and CHA saves are ill defined. Need I say more? They need to be more cut and dry. I like WIS to notice stuff, INT to figure out stuff, and CHA to resist mental stuff. It can be mixed in a different way, it just needs some definition.

More definition and examples would be nice.

Missing concept - weapon size. I think weapon size was a great move forward with 3e. Removing it in 4e was a step backwards. I do not mind simplifying the system but a giants greatsword should do more damage than a humans, it is just that simple. I am not seeing that happen in any kind of consistent way across the rules.

This is an area for a module. It doesn't need to be in the base rules.

Just to add my own, I want to see racial ability modifiers go away. Define the races with other abilities that are more class agnostic.

 

[Sadrik]

This is an update on the things I do not like and it is looking better.

Racial damage bonuses. It is unnecessary. For me it is enough to say dwarves like hafted weapons. It does not need to be hard coded into the system and force a players acceptance of those weapons for that race. And why do only PC races get it? It just needs to go.

Now proficiency is granted. Much better.

1d6 damage reduction for being drunk, please just remove this. Add temporary HP if you think people have to be able to take more damage while drunk.

Still there!

Contested rolls, they are too random. Opposed rolls should be against the save of the opponent. both roll. if one succeeds and another fails there is a victor. If both fail it continues, if both succeed it continues. This is really key in the arena of stealth.

Still in the game. These are so broken and unwarranted that they will inflate a whole new generation of gamers to hate grappling and all the other applications. The funny thing they will not know why, it is the mechanic.

The HD dice pool. I am not sold that the added complication generates that much added benefit. Just say you can heal up to your HP total per day. Have 20 HP you can heal 20 HP per day. You need to initiate a heal with a short rest and binding wounds as usual.

Still in, they are going to make dice pools a bug/feature with this game. You will just fall on one side of it.

Coupe de Grace: two hits kills anything. this is extremely weak vs. low HP monsters and extremely good vs. high HP monsters. There needs to be a scale in there or at minimum a save, or something. IDK what but something.

Still a 2 hit kill for a great wyrm dragon and a goblin.

INT and CHA saves are ill defined. Need I say more? They need to be more cut and dry. I like WIS to notice stuff, INT to figure out stuff, and CHA to resist mental stuff. It can be mixed in a different way, it just needs some definition.

Still not clearly defined.

Missing concept - weapon size. I think weapon size was a great move forward with 3e. Removing it in 4e was a step backwards. I do not mind simplifying the system but a giants greatsword should do more damage than a humans, it is just that simple. I am not seeing that happen in any kind of consistent way across the rules.

This may not make it in the game and is seen as a bug? So a large character will just use a spear and not a large spear? A small character cannot use two handed weapons?

I think that is about it for the problems that inhabits all of the packets. ED is a big problem but that is only in the last two packets.

This has been mitigated someone with multi-attack. It is on the right path, not sure it has arrived yet though.

 

[Li Shenron]

Still a 2 hit kill for a great wyrm dragon and a goblin.

I don't know... perhaps we don't need CdG (as a rule) in the game at all.

 

[Sadrik]

Just to add my own, I want to see racial ability modifiers go away. Define the races with other abilities that are more class agnostic.

I could be behind that. Only ability penalties. Rather than a bonus to con a dwarf could have +2 to con saves. Pretty simple. The human is the problem child. +1 to all abilities. That sets the stage for making all other races look like they are penalized by 1 except in their one ability.

 

[keterys]

Eh, if races don't affect ability scores (which would be a pretty odd departure), humans are even simpler.

They just get +1 to saves and checks, or an equivalent.

 

[the Jester]

I'm a huge fan of coup de grace rules- one reason they entered the game in the first place was so that "dagger at your throat" hostage scenarios and the like had some sort of mechanical support, and I think that's valuable enough to warrant keeping them in.

I'm fine with the idea of moving them to a tactical rules module, though; let them be an element that is easy to ignore if you don't like 'em.

 

[Sadrik]

I'm a huge fan of coup de grace rules- one reason they entered the game in the first place was so that "dagger at your throat" hostage scenarios and the like had some sort of mechanical support, and I think that's valuable enough to warrant keeping them in.

I'm fine with the idea of moving them to a tactical rules module, though; let them be an element that is easy to ignore if you don't like 'em.

I am also a huge fan of the concept of coup de grace. I however feel like they need to be in the base game. The dagger at the throat concept works when holding a commoner but what about a dragon or 20th level barbarian? The current implementation is ripe for abuse. If there were a standard rule for attacking while someone's defenses were down. Called shots, sneak attack, critical hits, and coup de grace all under one roof makes sense to me.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I don't know... perhaps we don't need CdG (as a rule) in the game at all.

I agree. There's already an unconscious condition that gives attackers advantage. The coup de grace rules are totally unnecessary.