To Sneak Attack, or not to Sneak Attack that is the question...

[WayneLigon]

I really like that idea. There's only one thing I'm wondering about. It is my understanding that once a class skill, always a class skill in terms of max ranks (I don't do it like this, but I've heard it's the RAW). So, by taking a level in Rogue, and then levels in Fighter, dumping skill points in Sneak Attack each level, you would have a Fighter with a Rogue's Sneak Attack progression. It would cost more skill points, but it still seems over the top.

Nope; when you're buying skills with a Fighter's skill points you're limited to the Fighter class skills.

Now, there is a house rule I've been thinking about using: when you take one of those feats that gives you +2 in X and Y skill, those skills become class skills for you regardless of the class skill points you're spending. Makes the skill point feats a little better.

 

[Testament]

Another good non-core option is the Patrician from Arcanis. Absolutely useless in a fight, but an absolute master of politics. It's essentially a PC powered version of Aristocrat.

 

[Sejs]

Courtier from OA, also.

(Assuming it wasn't already mentioned.. I just skimmed. Lazy, lazy cube that I am.)

 

[reanjr]

Nope; when you're buying skills with a Fighter's skill points you're limited to the Fighter class skills.

Now, there is a house rule I've been thinking about using: when you take one of those feats that gives you +2 in X and Y skill, those skills become class skills for you regardless of the class skill points you're spending. Makes the skill point feats a little better.

Right, but what about max ranks? I know you have to buy them for double, but are you still limited to cross-class max ranks?

 

[The_Gneech]

If you were going to break it out as a separate mechanic, you'd want to make it a feat, with a new feat for each +1d6.

And not a fighter bonus feat!

-The Gneech

 

[JoeGKushner]

Green Ronin: Noble's Handbook

Green Ronin: Black Company with Noble and Jack-Of-All-Trades among others.

Mongoose: Noble

Fading Suns: Noble

etc.. etc.. etc...

Heck, other game systems give you a fair amount of customization. Take Grim Tales with three background skills, three professional skills, and three pick your own skills.

It sounds like there isn't enough d20 exposure.

 

[Henry]

There's also the paragraph in the Player's Handbook that says (paraphrasing) "speak with your DM about character class alterations to make the kind of character you conceive of." There's nothing that says a DM wouldn't let you change this for bardic knowledge, or an extra feat every four levels, or some such.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Right, but what about max ranks? I know you have to buy them for double, but are you still limited to cross-class max ranks?

Maximum ranks in a skill is determined on a "Class for one, class for all" basis.

Thus, the maximum ranks in Spellcraft for a Wizard 5 and a Fighter 4 / Wizard 1 is 8 in both cases.

The cost of a given rank is determined by what class you have just leveled up in.

So, Fighter 4 / Wizard 1 likely had to pay more skill points to get to the same point.

 

[jmucchiello]

Once again I'll plug Character Customization. It has many pages devoted to swapping one set of class abilities for another. It has notes on spending skill points for class abilities. See my sig for a review I don't like. Rogue stuff translates to 3.5 with little need for intervention from me.

 

[ConspiracyAngel]

Important notes:

Sorry, I recognize that all of you are very resourceful when it comes to finding new and interesting classes. But for the sake of this one game, it is 3.5 core classes only.

Also, important to note... that if you are a multiclass character, you still are required to adhere to cross class skill ratios... example: if you are a Level 1 Rogue/7 Fighter... when placing those Fighter skill points into a Rogue class they only count as 0.5 each. There is no way that a 1/7 would be as good as Rogue 8... that is unless you are cheating of course. Then by all means... sure.

To the rest, thanks for your input. Not looking to alter class permentantly. Have character who wants to be lawful good rogue... who doesn't see Sneak Attack as fitting the character and is looking for a good exchange. And another character who thinks that they have dedicated enough efforts into study of their one weapon and fighting skill that they should be able to do at least a little more damage than 1d4 at 7th level (Ranger).