D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Everything Xanathar

[cbwjm]

It sounds like cool spell, but the implementation, like its mechanical predecessor Witch Bolt, is really weak sauce. Your spending a valuable fifth level spell slot to hit someone within range with mediocre (for the level) damage and a negligible amount of healing for yourself (if they fail the save). This generally means that you want the spell to last as long as possible to "get your money's worth out of it", so to speak, with more damage and healing each round. The problem is that this costs not only your concentration, but your action as well; in addition to the fact that the target can move out of range or behind full cover. One or two of these restrictions might be okay for some circumstances, but IME, this is rarely, if ever, worth it except as a flavorful torture method on a helpless opponent/sacrifice by the big bad. I mean, if you need the healing that badly and don't have a cleric/druid/paladin/bard/First Aid, I guess. But unless you are fighting mooks, this seems like a delay tactic at best, and you would be better served by a "Get out of Dodge" type of spell.

All good. I don't care if a spell is "the best" when my wizard gets access to 5th level slots I'm going to pick that spell and have fun using it. You won't pick it and I'm sure you'll still have fun.

The signature of champions.

 

[Gadget]

Would twin spell apply to this spell?

You know, that might be a way to get some mileage out of this spell, assuming there wasn't a better candidate to twin at this level.

All good. I don't care if a spell is "the best" when my wizard gets access to 5th level slots I'm going to pick that spell and have fun using it. You won't pick it and I'm sure you'll still have fun.

Great! Enjoy your game, I'm not here to rain on your parade, but there's no reason the designers couldn't have made the spell to please both of us. I'm not usually a "moar damage, must be the bestest!" type myself. I just believe a spell choice should offer a real choice, with some spells being better in some circumstance than others (or almost as good, or provide some added utility). Obviously, complete parity would not be possible (or even desirable), but at least in the same ball park would be nice. I just don't see that here.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Assuming the first 10 in the array is Strength, this is not a valid array for what you are trying to do. The Paladin multiclass requires a minimum 13 Strength. You would need to swap out the points in Dexterity (or CON) and put them into Strength.

Just start out as paladin. Second level is usually reached very fast.

I have to disagree, but it's subjective. Seems to me basing a build around a 1/day ability that increases crit from 19-20 is really narrow. Moreso when the "sweet spot" of having advantage (through vow of enmity) and the increased crit range (through Hexblade curse) cannot even be set up on round 1 (since both require a bonus action).

Regardless, of whether it's worth it or not, this ends up being a very specialized build. Really good at doing damage after round 2 of one battle per day. The rest of the time, it's fine, but not really special.

Hexblade's Curse is not quite a 1x/d ability, at least it refreshes on a short rest.

There are other ways of doing this Crit build indeed. But for the Sorcadin it comes at a meagre one level dip, which also provides other sky blue features. The Sorcadin was a really powerful multi class already, the level 1 Hexblade abilities seem tailor-made for him.

There are multiple ways to make good use of the charisma, depending on the build. If you go more paladin heavy, Aura of Protection is really nice. The Sorcerer can make good use of the Cha with his spells. At level 6, he can add Cha to damage again with GFB.

But I think you are right. Over-focusing on the crit build is probably too narrow and a bad idea. I will try something that makes better use of a high Charisma score and is more balanced overall.

Hexblade 1, Paladin 2, Dragon Sorcerer 6 will probably work much better. He has the same number of spell slots you character has (you trade one pact magic slot for a level 4 slot).
He does good damage with GFB alone (decent 19 base damage, 27,5 with a second target), usually outdoing your extra attack. Spellcasting of this class is on par, if not slightly better then your character's. He can quicken 4 times, doing great burst damage or casting while attacking. He can smite if normal damage just isn't enough. You do loose out on the skill monkey features though.

Next level sets you up for Hexblade's Curse+Improved invisibility crit power once per short rest. The level after adds 11 damage to your GFBs.

This example is closer to your build, and probably much stronger overall then the first example I gave. You will probably prefer it for the much improved spellcasting capabilities alone

 

[rczarnec]

Just start out as paladin. Second level is usually reached very fast.

Which doesn't change the 13 Strength requirement.

 

[mikal768]

You're right in that they're similar but to me fighter is better for the following reasons above Bard, especially as you'll be in melee more often as a Hexblade usually.

1- More HP
2- Action Surge
3- The expanded fighting style options since duelist and TWF aren't very useful for most melee Hexblades who are likely to go GWF
4- Extra Attack one level early.
5- The possibility for a third extra attack if you go fighter heavy
6- The Battlemaster abilities recharge on a short rest, whereas the inspiration dice recharge on a long rest, so while the bardic flourishes are similar, you are much more limited in their actual use.

The DCs on Battlemaster will be lower yes, due to focusing on a secondary stat for you, but the fact you can use them more often throughout the day in addition to the other benefits makes up for it.

However, as you said yourself, you can easily choose items without DCs such as Riposte and Precision Attack, and even those like Trip Attack only have a DC 2 or 3 less than normal. While that can be a big deal, you'll still hit fairly often as your proficiency bonus improves.

Of course, you could also try the best of both worlds, and go Battlemaster/Blade/Hexblade...

Also in my build you only really go to level 8 in the bard/fighter class, since you want level 12 for that extra Cha to damage in, so bardic spellcasting isn't as useful.

Actually, thinking about it further, a Hexblade 12/Battlemaster 4/Blade 4 might be even better.

4 Maneuvers per short rest, 5 Flourishes per long rest. Some Bard casting, JoAT, Action Surge, small HP bump, and perhaps most importantly- Blade Flourishes and Maneuvers stack! You can do one of each per turn, so that means you can say... Precision Attack plus Defensive Flourish for Offense (attack AND damage) and Defensive (AC) buffs, Pushing Attack while also using Pushing Flourish to move them to a spot you want that can easily force them to Dash to get back into range for melee against others, or use Slashing Flourish plus Sweeping Attack to attack someone within 5 feet of you for 1d8+1d6 damage.

While the last option is kind of weak, the others do work well.
Unfortunately they don't mix with attack cantrips, else Slashing+Sweeping would be great with Green Flame Blade, and you could Riposte+Pushing Attack or even Riposte+Pushing+Booming Blade

In addition, you can use a ranged pact weapon and one handed melee weapon, so if you aren't like me (and wanting to focus on say, Great Weapon style), you're equally viable in melee and ranged since Blade Flourish doesn't require melee.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Which doesn't change the 13 Strength requirement.

Oh, upon re-reading the Prerequisites paragraph, you are right. I always thought you just need the stats for the new class. Having to invest into 13 str is definitely a downside for dipping Paladin. This would worsen the point buy array to 13/14/14/8/9/16.

 

[sogcos]

I have tought a lot about Tensers transformation since it peaked my interest. And I think I might have a way better way of using it than curently discribed.
TL'DR: Situational for sure. But when level six is not your highest spell level anymore, very economic when that situation arises.

So let me go in depth and show you a way it might be usefull for a full mage:
Why would anyone cast it? To temporarely become a fighter, in the specific situation where you need something better that cantrips, but less resource intensive than a spell every round. More specefically: to kill the mobs desinged to drain resources. Like the cultists on the way to the dragon. Thus having more spells fighting the dragon. First important note is to only melee if it is nececary. Ranged weapons get buffed to!
Or: in the very rare situation your normal spells dont reach but a longbow would.

To acomplish this the usefull parts are:
-Advantage. (like you said, compensates for poor dex. Or makes you a crack shot if you have good dex)
-Temp HP (leaves your actual healthpool at hopefully full for when you meet that dragon)
-Extra attack (use darts as weapon to turn this into 3 ranged atacks with your bonus action. Or shortswords if you have to melee)
-Extra damage (average 15.5+dex damage per dart is formidable. If al hit that would be 46.5+dex damage (+10 per turn for 20 dex)). Compared to 16.5/22 for a firebolt; Not bad for the purpose I think this spell has.)

The good:
-Concentration! why you ask? You can end the spell anytime you need to be a caster again. This is Important when you get to that dragon and want to start burning his legendary saves/Forcecage. For warmages it is even better. Speaking of class specifics; I wonder if bladesong stil works.

The bad:
-Not being able to cast while using this spell. This is the tradeoff and why this spell is situationall.
-Armour proficiencies. This is a trap. You might want to turn back into a caster any second. And you cant cast in non proficient armour.

The ugly:
-Shield proficiency. Takes 1/3 of the potential damage away. And while you can drop the shield for free (if you need to cast NOW). I can imagine situations that wil lead to lost magic shields.
-Exhaustion. Whe try to have a good con (concentration) save, but good luck counterspelling if you fail the DC15 con save. Other than that, it is not to bad.

Potential use in epic level play:
Wish > Find greater steed... It targets them to? Dismount (or not controll?) and lets duo this party!
Simulacrums economic spell slot choise?

Thats it. I'm looking forward to others people response on this.

EDIT: added exhaustion to the argument.

 

[ad_hoc]

Word of Radiance: (Cleric)
Thunderclap (Thundercrap) for Clerics. Other than the damage type change, it’s the same spell. Same damage, same range, same lousy Con save.

It is a bit different.

Radiant is the best damage type in the game. So there is that.

It also allows the caster to choose their targets unlike Thunderclap.

Finally, it is likely to be taken on a Cleric who, with their heavy armour and shields, want to be in the front line to take attacks (and for Spirit Guardians). It only needs to affect 2 creatures to be as good as another cantrip.

I'm not saying it's great, but I would rate it Orange?

 

[ad_hoc]

Chaos BoltSorcerer)
I am not a fan of Chromatic Orb, but at least you have complete control over the damage type. Expect this to do less damage, and give you less control of the damage type. This is a hefty trade for a dismal chance of multiple targeting (You need to successfully hit, then you get a 1 in 8 chance, then you need to hit again, if there is an applicable second target, this is not a good gamble). If you just want to blast, and want some reliability, really, magic missile is your best level 1 option.

The damage is 2d8+1d6 vs Chromatic Orb's 3d8.

That's pretty close and then there is the 1in8 chance to attack again.

Damage type is usually a choice of 2, and most of them are good. I think it will be fairly rare for a creature to be resistant to both rolled.

The main thing that makes this good is when used by a Wild Sorcerer. They get advantage whenever they want on spells so they want to be making attack rolls. This is much better than Magic Missile on a Wild Sorcerer.

 

[ad_hoc]

Shadow Blade: (Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard)
OK, so for most Sorcerers, Warlocks and WIzards, manifesting a weapon you can use in melee or throw a short distance using your Strength or Dex modifiers instead of your spellcasting modifier is a terrible, terrible idea. If you are a melee type, this is a decent option. It uses your concentration, but the damage of the Shadow Blade is probably significantly better than your current weapon. Yes, Dex or Str are used for attack and added to damage. Yes, you can use it in your off hand and attack as a bonus action. If you are looking for a damage boost with your melee character (I’m looking at you Bladesingers and Arcane Tricksters), this is one way to do that. As magic weapons become better and better as you increase levels, this spell may look worse and worse in comparison, even with higher level advancements.

The main draw here is the advantage.