UA Monks Introduces the Kensai and Tranquility Traditions

The Kensei was pretty much exactly how I expected/wanted it to be. With the exception of the bludgeoning damage. A d4 that doesn't scale? I hate d4s, and especially at higher levels it's hardly worth anything. Especially since as a monk, I could just use my bonus action to make an unarmed attack and use monk damage dice for that.

I've never been a fan of pacifist PCs, so the tranquil monk isn't my cup of tea. I understand others may feel differently though.

 

[Sir Brennen]

So, now that they clarified that Kensai weapons ARE monk weapons ...

Kinda. Here's the tweets from Mearls:

@mikemearls Dec 13 Quick UA clarification - kensai weapons are not monk weapons

@mikemearls 15 hours ago A better explanation - a kensai weapon is not automatically a monk weapon. This is in response to a question about the shortsword​

BUT

‏@mikemearls 15h hours ago Sometimes knowing the system guts is a bad thing. You can get the benefits from Martial Arts when holding a kensai weapon.​

Of course, this is really not much of a distinction, since Martial Arts is the only Monk feature that even mentions Monk Weapons.

And to add to the confusion:

‏@mikemearls Dec 13 mainly balance - can't flurry with kensai weapon​

but I think he was mis-remembering, thinking you could flurry with monk weapons. Flurry is Unarmed Strike only. It's the damage an unarmed strike would do that's dependent on the Martial Arts, and since you get all those benefits, there's nothing preventing you from using a kensei weapon and then a bonus action FoB using full Martial Arts damage.

I am still dubious about it being worth it, except at early levels. As early as level 5 you'll be able to do one or two great sword attacks and one or two unarmed (pretty strong) OR two great sword and pummel for extra 1d4 damage. This is so subpar in comparison I am not sure why it's there.

Something needs to be done so the heavy two-handed weapons aren't the obvious choice for kensei, but just an option. For a fighter, you're balancing with giving up a shield.

Pummel could be useful if your kensai weapon is a bow, in which case, when you fight at range, you will not always be able to punch things nearby.

Per Jeremy Crawford, that's not meant to be an option:

@JeremyECrawford Dec 12 Rereading a playtest rule, I'm chuckling at the absurdity caused by accidentally omitting "within 5 feet of you." Pummeling at long range!​

Could a polearm master build bring something to the table?

Reach?

Really, in the end, I think these statements from the wotc staff imply this version of the Kensei tradition is dead in the water:

@JeremyECrawford 18 hours ago It was an experiment. Playtest feedback is rapidly showing it isn't an experiment worth carrying forward.

@JeremyECrawford 19 hours ago It's funny you ask. We already have a different version of the kensei in mind. That's the nature of design: iterate, iterate, iterate.

‏@mikemearls 14 hours ago All of the UA stuff will receive revisions - honestly, monk is just sloppiness on my part.​

 

[hejtmane]

Quoted the wrong reply I missed the one


Be better off with 2handed sword more dpr with GWM and unlike a fighter you have limited asi. What you here about polearm all the time is simple it the hand crossbow of heavy weapons

 

[Corwin]

A minor peeve for my, on the kensei, is that the kensei weapons presumably are supposed to be martial. I kind of like the idea of a bo focused monk using a quarterstaff as his weapon of choice.

 

[BookBarbarian]

A minor peeve for my, on the kensei, is that the kensei weapons presumably are supposed to be martial. I kind of like the idea of a bo focused monk using a quarterstaff as his weapon of choice.

it's a legitimate peeve.

I think the subclass works much more intuitively if Kensei Weapon are Monk Weapons and Monk Weapons are Kensei Weapons. You get all the benefits of being a monk using a Kensei weapon and You get all the Benefits of a Kensei using a Monk weapon. I don't think it makes anything OP.

 

[Sacrosanct]

A minor peeve for my, on the kensei, is that the kensei weapons presumably are supposed to be martial. I kind of like the idea of a bo focused monk using a quarterstaff as his weapon of choice.

The problem with UA articles, especially ones that are frequent (like these weekly ones), is that there is a higher risk of ambiguity. I think this is one of those times. I'm sure they used the term "marital weapons" to add weapons that can be use, and not exclude existing monk weapons. I can't see any reason why a kensei would be excluded from using a monk weapon as their kensei weapon.

 

[Chaosmancer]

While that's an amusing concept, it's not really how the spell works. The attacker has to choose a new target or lose the attack or spell. Presumably, this is what an attacker would do instead of targeting an ally.

I always read it that they must choose a new target. If they can't choose a new target they lose the attack.


But I can see your interpretation too.

Bunch of Tweets

Okay, so going forward the designers are changing what they said and Kensei Weapons are monk weapons.

So, you can wield any martial weapon with Dex, if you use 1 of your two attacks to punch, you get +2 AC (Rereading it a few times it does say the Attack Action specifically so all Bonus Action punches do not trigger AC bonus) and then flurry for 2 more strikes....

Pummel is completely worthless unless you really want auto damage, because bonus action punch will always be higher damage (1d4 vs 1d4+mod) unless you hit two different targets I suppose, so you can spread damage around better.


Everything else is accuracy buffs, except for making it a +3 weapon.


So, end of the day this is to allow reach weapons for the class with the highest natural speed in the game, or the use of big damage weapons.

I'm still not impressed, but it at least isn't as much of a horrible convoluted mess this way (and it seems obvious to me this was not the intent of the original document but them responding to the massive confusion and push-back. )

 

[Flamestrike]

Did anyone notice Li Mu Bai died of poison?
10th level monk ability: immune to poison
.

It was a special poison. One that overcomes immunity.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I mean really, there's just all sorts of clutter in the monk's abilities that kensai have no logical reason to have.

I'm kind of tired watching Wizards cuck up one class after the next. It's why my group's members haven't bought a thing since last year.

I think that its more likely that you simply have a different opinion of what a kensei is. Nothing is stopping you playing a Fighter or multiclass and calling yourself a "kensei".

 

[Valetudo]

kensai with sword. 1 attack. at 5th 2 attacks. with flurry 4 attacks, at a price of 1 ki point and lose your bonus action. Which means you can't use an off hand.
Even if you could use your sword, this would still suck.

Kensai without Flurry:
1st: 1 attack, +1d4 unarmed (2 attacks per round, half attacks suck)
1st +1 ki point: 1 attack +2d4 unarmed (3 attacks per round, 2/3rds of attacks suck)
5th: 2 attacks, +1d6 unarmed
5th +1 ki point: 2 attacks +2d6 unarmed
6th+: Same. 3-4 attacks, 2 with sword, 1-2 with unarmed 1d6-1d10. (3-4 attacks per round)
5th level party+: with haste +1 weapon attack (4-5 attacks per round)

Fighter:
1st: 1 attack, +1 attack off hand weapon (2 attacks per round)
2nd: action surge: 2 attacks, +1 attack off hand
5th: action surge: 4 attacks +1 attack off hand, otherwise 2 attacks +1 attack offhand (3-5 attacks/round)
11th: 6 attacks +1 offhand, otherwise 3 attacks +1 offhand (4-7 attacks/round)
20th level: 8 attacks +1 offhand, otherwise 4 attacks +1 offhand (5-9 attacks/round)
5th+ level party: haste. 3-5 attacks becomes 4-6 attacks, 4-7 attacks becomes 5-9 attacks at 11th level. 5-9 attacks becomes 6-10 attacks at 20th level.

This is not balanced.

Did anyone notice Li Mu Bai died of poison?
10th level monk ability: immune to poison
Almost all samurai not killed in battle die of tuberculosis; its like an unwritten rule. Rouroni Kenshin did. Souji Okita did. That's dying from disease.
10th level monk ability: immune to disease

Bam right there, a 10th level monk ability kensai shouldn't have. How about an extra attack instead?

Tongue of the Sun and Moon: understand all spoken languages and any creature can understand what you say...
uhh... no. Another 13th level monk ability kensai shouldn't have. How about another attack... or how about Ambuscade or Action surge?

18th level Empty Body: invisibility, damage resistance to everything, and astral projection? How about not.
Leaves plenty of room for an extra attack, or something like thief's reflexes, the assassin's death strike, or whirlwind attack

I mean really, there's just all sorts of clutter in the monk's abilities that kensai have no logical reason to have.

I'm kind of tired watching Wizards cuck up one class after the next. It's why my group's members haven't bought a thing since last year.

Dude he wouldnt have died of poison in a dnd universe.

 

[Yunru]

kensai with sword. 1 attack. at 5th 2 attacks. with flurry 4 attacks, at a price of 1 ki point and lose your bonus action. Which means you can't use an off hand.
Even if you could use your sword, this would still suck.

Kensai without Flurry:
1st: 1 attack, +1d4 unarmed (2 attacks per round, half attacks suck)
1st +1 ki point: 1 attack +2d4 unarmed (3 attacks per round, 2/3rds of attacks suck)
5th: 2 attacks, +1d6 unarmed
5th +1 ki point: 2 attacks +2d6 unarmed
6th+: Same. 3-4 attacks, 2 with sword, 1-2 with unarmed 1d6-1d10. (3-4 attacks per round)
5th level party+: with haste +1 weapon attack (4-5 attacks per round)

Fighter:
1st: 1 attack, +1 attack off hand weapon (2 attacks per round)
2nd: action surge: 2 attacks, +1 attack off hand
5th: action surge: 4 attacks +1 attack off hand, otherwise 2 attacks +1 attack offhand (3-5 attacks/round)
11th: 6 attacks +1 offhand, otherwise 3 attacks +1 offhand (4-7 attacks/round)
20th level: 8 attacks +1 offhand, otherwise 4 attacks +1 offhand (5-9 attacks/round)
5th+ level party: haste. 3-5 attacks becomes 4-6 attacks, 4-7 attacks becomes 5-9 attacks at 11th level. 5-9 attacks becomes 6-10 attacks at 20th level.

This is not balanced.

Of course it isn't: the Fighter can't Stun his foes with those weapon attacks.