UA: New Race Options, Eladrin and Gith

The Eladrin ability score adjustment needs to be: +2 Charisma, +1 any other.

Charisma and all of its connotations [charm, innate magic, bardic song, etcetera] is what best represents the Fey Elf concept.

Intelligence is an accident of D&D only having Wizard class in the beginning, but it has merit in folklore too.

Dexterity is irrelevant.

Maybe handsized sprites connote Dexterity, but humansized spirits of magic, less so.



Edit.

Elves can work better this way:

Wood Elf: +2 Dexterity
High Elf: +2 Intelligence
Eladrin Elf: +2 Charisma

That is what the Elf feels like.



Edit.

High Elf
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence (!)
Trance
Investigation skill proficiency
Languages: Elven, Sylvan, and Common
Cantrip
Elven Armor (permanent Mage Armor, appears as supple chain armor or as invisible force)
High Elf Weapon Training (longsword proficiency, treat as finesse weapon and spell focus)
(Darkvision too?)



Edit.

Eladrin are a group of elves that are native to the Fey Plane. They feel like a separate race of Elf with their own four subraces. The concept of the Eladrin evolves across the editions, and their association with the four seasons seems to enjoy traction. They consolidate well into four kinds of Eladrin, each one corresponding to a season.

Eladrin Elf
• Spring: +2 Charisma, +1 Dexterity (Ghael, Coure)
• Summer: +2 Charisma, +1 Strength (Firre, Bralani)
• Autumn: +2 Charisma, +1 Intelligence (Tulani)
• Winter: +2 Charisma, +1 Wisdom (Noviere, Shiere)

 

[Yaarel]

Am I understanding correctly the 5e version of Elven Chain? (SRD, DMG).

An Elf who wears Elven Chain cannot benefit from high Dexterity (any Dex +3 or higher)?

If so, that is unacceptable.

Even Mithril Chain disallows full Dexterity.



I want both the Elven Chain and the Elven Longsword to benefit fully from Dexterity and be a normal part of the Elven arsenal, at least for the High Elf.

The Wood Elf feels better with Longbow and an Elven Spear that benefits from Dexterity.

Drow Elf has its Handbow and light blades.



A High Elf with Dexterity +5 and a proper Elven Chain with Base 13 AC that allows full Dexterity, totals 18 AC. That is just the Elven equivalent of Plate, and is balanced. Elven Chain with full Dexterity is only one point better than Studded Leather.

 

[Yaarel]

High Elf
+2 Dexterity Score
+2 Intelligence Score (!)
Darkvision
Fey Ancestry
Trance
Languages: Elven, Sylvan, and Common
Cantrip
High Elf Weapon Training (!) (longsword proficiency, treat as finesse weapon and spell focus)
High Elf Armor Training (!) (proficiency with Elven Chain: base AC is 13 + Dexterity)



(No Perception proficiency − leave that for the Wood Elf) (?)

 

[Charles Rampant]

You know, I don't think I've ever met someone so fixated on Elven dexterity. And I say that as someone who owns a Warhammer Elves army!

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

You know, I don't think I've ever met someone so fixated on Elven dexterity. And I say that as someone who owns a Warhammer Elves army!

Its a powerful stat: making it higher makes the race overall better.

Particularly if you can optimise them even further by making it your main attack stat for weapons that would normally required a different ability score.

And then make them even better by potentially granting them a better AC potential than other races can achieve while still having all the benefits of concentrating on Dexterity.*

*Admittedly, this isn't a major issue since Elven Chain is a magic item and a DM can just ensure that an Elf character simply never gets access to a set of Elven Chain.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Am I understanding correctly the 5e version of Elven Chain? (SRD, DMG).

An Elf who wears Elven Chain cannot benefit from high Dexterity (any Dex +3 or higher)?

If so, that is unacceptable.

Even Mithril Chain disallows full Dexterity.

Why and to whom is it "unacceptable"?

Dex mods being affected by armour is one of those mechanics that don't always make sense realistically, but are there for game balance purposes.
Mithral armour may not allow full Dex mod, but it also removes the strength requirement. That is still a pretty good bonus.
Given we're talking about specific magical items here, it probably makes more sense to change the text of the item than the actual race description. In the majority of cases (particularly if it grants them more powerful capabilities) its pretty irrelevant because an Elf character is never going to get their hands on elven or mithril armour.

I want both the Elven Chain and the Elven Longsword to benefit fully from Dexterity and be a normal part of the Elven arsenal, at least for the High Elf.

The Wood Elf feels better with Longbow and an Elven Spear that benefits from Dexterity.

Why the obsession that everything an elf uses has to ride off Dexterity? Why do you regard elves as having to be able to use longswords and spears with Dexterity?
How do you regard then as achieving this with weapons that aren't Finesse?

A High Elf with Dexterity +5 and a proper Elven Chain with Base 13 AC that allows full Dexterity, totals 18 AC. That is just the Elven equivalent of Plate, and is balanced. Elven Chain with full Dexterity is only one point better than Studded Leather.

Giving an AC equivalent to that of plate with no investment in Str is not balanced.

 

[Remathilis]

High Elf
+2 Dexterity Score
+2 Intelligence Score (!)
Darkvision
Fey Ancestry
Trance
Languages: Elven, Sylvan, and Common
Cantrip
High Elf Weapon Training (!) (longsword proficiency, treat as finesse weapon and spell focus)
High Elf Armor Training (!) (proficiency with Elven Chain: base AC is 13 + Dexterity)

(No Perception proficiency − leave that for the Wood Elf) (?)

1.) So at this point, to give the +2 Int, we'd have to re-write every race that has come out (with the exception of Mountain dwarf) to give them +2 to their secondary bumps as well, making them all +2/+2.

2.) why the obsession with longswords as finesse weapons when rapiers are the same damage dice. The only reason I can see is the abundance of magical longswords vs rapiers.

3.) Now, I'm confused on how you plan to implement "elven chain" in the game. It would have to be a mundane armor (as in, non-magical and purchasable) otherwise it would be a useless feature for a majority of campaigns (tantamount to giving dragonborn proficiency in "holy avengers"). So we are going to add a new "light" armor one point better than studded leather. Which is fine, but also keep in mind there is no reason why anyone else proficient in light armor (fighters, rangers, paladins, barbarians, rogues, warlocks, clerics, bards, and mountain dwarves(!) ) couldn't use it either; in fact it would be bar-none the best armor for rogues, bards, warlocks and rangers. Unless you are going to come up with some bullstone reason why nobody but elves can wear it and how no one can just kill and elf wearing it and take his armor. (esp lithe races like half-elves, tritons, or tabaxi). Of course, being mundane, anyone could theoretically purchase it (since its a powerful light armor that could rival plate, 700-1,000 gp is a good amount).

Ultimately, your "fix" isn't much better than the original race; you upped their Int by a point and gave them essentially rapier proficiency and proficiency in a single light armor (which is bound to be expensive anyway), while removing one of the best skill proficiency in the game (Perception) and fixing their bonus language to a mostly useless one (considering how they could pick, draconic, orc, abyssal, goblin or a dozen other more useful ones than Sylvan).

 

[Remathilis]

Giving an AC equivalent to that of plate with no investment in Str is not balanced.

Not really...

I mean half-plate with a 14 Dex is AC 17, which is one point less than full and has 0 Strength requirement. To get to 18, the elven chain wearer would need a 20 Dex, which is a significantly higher investment than a 14 Dex (half plate) or a 15 Str (full plate). Hell, Studded leather with a 20 Dex is still AC 17. Its biggest advantage would be that it probably wouldn't have disadvantage to stealth.

Its power-creep, sure. But its hardly game-breaking.

 

[Scoobs]

Another elf subrace with high dex? Whooooahh haha

Might run my next lock as an Archfey with this.

 

[Yaarel]

1.) So at this point, to give the +2 Int, we'd have to re-write every race that has come out (with the exception of Mountain dwarf) to give them +2 to their secondary bumps as well, making them all +2/+2.

The Mountain Dwarf is *balanced* with the additional +2 ability score.

By contrast, the Hill Dwarf is one of the more powerful race options and is already balanced with the additional +1 ability score − and would become imbalanced if it increased to +2.

Similarly, the Wood Elf is one of the more powerful race options, and is already balanced with the additional +1 ability.

By contrast, the High Elf is one of the substandard race options, and becomes *balanced* when increasing its current +1 to a +2 ability score.

 

[Yaarel]

2.) why the obsession with longswords as finesse weapons when rapiers are the same damage dice. The only reason I can see is the abundance of magical longswords vs rapiers.

Why finesse longswords? Mainly plot protection.

Whatever the weapon it needs to make sense within a high Dexterity culture. It strains credulity that a Non-strength Elf subrace would be hurling rock boulders as the cultural weapon of choice.

It could be, the finesse rapier is the cultural weapon for the High Elf. But personally, the rapier cannot feel ‘elven’ to me. It cannot even feel ‘medievalesque’ to me. The rapier is a renaissance weapon.

I dont mind the Drow wielding the rapier, because they have a weird, exotic, mysterious, remote culture. If they have a weird weapon, fine. At least it makes sense in the Drow high Dexterity culture.

D&D tradition has always associated the High Elf with the longsword (even after it makes less sense when finesse weapons became available in D&D). Instead of ending this tradition, just allow the High Elf to apply the finesse property to it because of the famous whirling dancing fighting-style.

Mechanically, there is no difference between the finesse rapier and the finesse longsword, except that the finesse longsword can be used versatilely with both hands if sacrificing the use of a shield. Which also feels appropriate to the high Dexterity Elf.