Ultimate Guide to Ambiguous/Problem Rules

[Macbrea]

11. Are gauntlets/helmets part of armor? (Can monks wear them without penalty?)

This is ambiguous.

Gauntlets are both weapons and a portion of armor. Helms are a portion of armor.

It is ambiguous if a portion of armor has the same penalties as a set of armor. In the case of helms, they should not penalize the Monk anymore than a backpack would. Gauntlets are less clear, although they too do not have any form of armor penalties in and of themselves.

Since neither of these give an armor bonus, they probably should not penalize the Monk either. This should be on a Balance list or an Ambiguous list.

Caliban
I agree with KD, although I've come around to the view that while Guantlets are unarmed weapons, but they are not weapons on the Monk list. If you choose to use them as weapons, you can't use your monk unarmed abilities with them. This is different than the position I originally had on the issue.

Guantlets and Helms are items that can be included with armor, but are not necessarily armor themselves (since they don't have any of the normal armor traits).

This was a good discussion from awhile back. And the sage's ruling still left me kind of wondering what to do. He didn't state as was posted that they were armor. Just that a monk did 1d3 damage with them. As it is right now, I ended up house ruling that my monks in my game can wear guantlets of Ogre power and not choose to fight with them as weapon. By that ruling that parts of armor are armor then a monk is prohibited from wearing the following:

Guantlets, Boots, and Helms.

 

[Artoomis]

This was a good discussion from awhile back. And the sage's ruling still left me kind of wondering what to do. He didn't state as was posted that they were armor. Just that a monk did 1d3 damage with them. As it is right now, I ended up house ruling that my monks in my game can wear guantlets of Ogre power and not choose to fight with them as weapon. By that ruling that parts of armor are armor then a monk is prohibited from wearing the following:

Guantlets, Boots, and Helms.

Nope - not boots. Boots are an ordinary pice of footwear. It possibel of boots to be part of armor, but also they might not be a part of armor.

 

[AGGEMAM]

In regards to item #9.

I suggest to let Expeditious Retreat double all your NATURAL forms of movement.

That excludes doubling flying speed from the Fly spell, and Monk unarmed speeds above 50 feet.

EDIT: Of course, I didn't bother to read ALL the replies, so it might have been said already. If that is the case, you know what to do.

EDIT NO. 2: Shouldn't double falling speed either.

 

[AGGEMAM]

And just add fuel to the fire...

34. Is Mage Armor/Bracers of Armor considered armor for monks?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Finally in regards to item #19.

You forgot to mention that the rules are clear enough.

Familiars gain an improvement to it's natural armor, while mounts gain a natural armor bonus.

This is backed by the example in DotF, page 47.

 

[Artoomis]

Finally in regards to item #19.

You forgot to mention that the rules are clear enough.

Familiars gain an improvement to it's natural armor, while mounts gain a natural armor bonus.

This is backed by the example in DotF, page 47.

Thee are <suprise, surprise!> conflicting exemples - possibly even within DotF.

If the rules were truly clear, it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Thee are <suprise, surprise!> conflicting exemples - possibly even within DotF.

If the rules were truly clear, it wouldn't be an issue.

oh ... please find the other examples.

(It is unfortunately the only one).

 

[Artoomis]

oh ... please find the other examples.

(It is unfortunately the only one).

Sorry - I can only go by what others have said, not ownig anything besides the core rules. Every now and then I get to lool through some other books myself, but m,ostly I have to take others' word for it. Sorry.

Speaking of taking folks word for it, that's what I'm doing with you - can you quote the example, so I can include it in the Guide?

 

[AGGEMAM]

I have ALL the books, so feel free to ask me.

Ok, here goes. Note that the mount has scale mail armor.

DotF, page 46-47.

Jumdish Dour: Male human Pal9; CR 9; Medium-size humanoid; HD 9d10+9; hp 63; Init -1; Spd 20 ft.; AC 22 (touch 10, flat-footed 22); Atk +13/+8 melee (ld8+3/17-20, +1 longsword) or +10/+5 ranged (ld8+3/X3, mighty masterwork composite longbow [+2] with +1 arrows); SA Smite evil, turn undead 6/day; SQ Aura of courage, detect evil, divine grace, divine health, empathic link with mount, heavy warhorse mount, lay on hands, remove disease 3/week, share spells with mount; AL LG; SV Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +8; Str 14, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16.
Skills and Feats: Diplomacy +15, Handle Animal +15, Ride +13; Improved Critical (longsword), Lightning Reflexes, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Weapon Focus (longsword).
Special Attacks: Smite Evil (Su): I/day add +3 to attack roll and +9 to damage against an evil creature. Turn Undead (Su): As 7th-level cleric.
Special Qualities: Aura of Courage (Su): Immune to fear, allies within 10 feet gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. Detect Evil (Sp): At will. Divine Grace: Saving throws include Charisma modifier. Divine Health: Immune to all diseases. Empathic Link (Su): Can communicate telepathically with mount up to one mile distant. Heavy Warhorse Mount: HD 8d8; hp 45; AC 20; Atk +4 melee (1d6+4, 2 hooves), -1 melee (1d4+2, bite); Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +3; Str 20, Int 7, Improved Evasion. Lay on Hands (Sp): Heal up to 27 points of damage per day, or deal up to 27 points of damage per day to undead as if using a touch spell. Share Spells: Any spell cast by paladin also affects mount if within 5 ft.
Spells Prepared (2/1; base DC = 13 + spell level): 1st—protection from evil, read magic; 2nd—resist elements.
Possessions: +1 full plate, +1 large steel shield, +1 longsword, mighty masterwork composite longbow (+2), 20 normal arrows, 5 +1 arrows, 2 potions of cure light wounds, 2 potions of cure moderate wounds, 2 scrolls of magic weapon, 2 scrolls of protection from evil, 2 javelins of lightning, ring of protection +1, paladin's mount, masterwork scale mail barding, bit and bridle, military saddle, saddlebags, dagger, silver holy symbol (Heironeous), 3 flasks of holy water.

EDIT: I should note that this is OCR and not typed in so minor errors may occur. I haven't found any, though.

 

[Artoomis]

9th level mount = Nat Ac 6
Hvy War Horse = AC 14 (Nat AC +4)
Scale Mail = AC +4

So, to be AC 20 the Nat AC from being a mount would have to be non-stacking for this example.

The Sage said is attacks, if I recall correctly. Also, if I recall correctly, there is another contrary example.

In any case, thanks for the ammunition for the "it does not stack" side of the argument.