undead player charicter templates

[Gicko]

So as you may or may not know, I’ve been planning on hosting a campaign staring a group of evil undead player characters. And recently, i decided to get off (onto?) my butt and actually work on them.

Problem is that there really aren’t any templates for undead PC's so i had to come up with my own. Do you think you guys could help me out here?

I would really appreciate it if you give them a look over, and let me know about any balancing issues I may have overlooked, weather to raise or lower this skill bonus, or remove this special ability, ETC. any help you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Note: all info used to make these templates taken from the website underneath the vampire title)

Edit: just so you know im probibly going to make these charicters start at level 3. just incase that matters)

edit 2: below are the updated versions of these templates, aslo added the new mummy template.

Evil undead player character templates:​

Skeleton:
Abilities: Str: –2, Dex: +2, Con: none

Medium size
Land speed of 30 Ft

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Elven, Infernal, Dwarven, Goblin
Skill bonuses: +3 to climb, +2 to intimidate.

Special skills: Damage reduction: 5/bludgeoning (-5 to all attacks not made with bludgeoning weapons) Darkvision to 60 Ft, +1 bonus feat
Undead use Charisma score in place of constitution



Ghost:
Abilities: Str: none, Con: none, int +2, Wis +4
Medium size
Flight speed of 30ft (no land speed)
Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Elvin, Dwarven, Celestial
Skill bonuses: +4 perception and stelth.
Special skills: AC deflection bonus =Cha modifier, Darkvision 60 Ft, immunity to weather, DR 5/magic with the exception of holy water, Can not give, or be affected by trip or grapple attacks. Weightless. Dexterity modifier applies to a ghosts melee, and ranged attacks. Unable to weald or be harmed by weapons or armour without the ghost touch bonus.



Vampire:
Vampire [Template] (Pathfinder_OGC)
Abilities: Str +2, Wis -2 Cha +2, Con: none
Medium size
Land speed of 30
Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, Goblin, Draconic, Undercommon
Skill bonuses: +2 on bluff, and stealth
Special skills: Scent, darkvision to 60 Ft, +3 natural armour, uses Charisma score in place of constitution
Other: must feed on the blood of the vampire’s original race at least once per day. Not doing so will result in –1 Str and –2 maximum HP per day until blood is drank. After 10 days without blood, the vampire will die.
Vampires must say 5ft (one square) away from mirrors or holy symbols. Vampires may not make touch, melee or grapple attacks on characters holding a holy symbol or mirror.
Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.


Lich

Abilities: Str –2, int +2, Wis +2, Con: none
Medium size:
Land speed of 30
Known languages: common, Abyssal, infernal, Ignan
Skill bonuses: +2 Knowledge (arcana), and spellcraft.
Special skills: Darkvision 60 Ft, Dr 5/bludgeoning and magic, Rejuvenation: when lich is destroyed, it will regenerate itself via its Phylactery for 1d10 days.
Other: a Lich must select an object of its choice to be its phylactery. This object must be an artificial item, and may not be an object such as a rock or plant. Should this object be destroyed, the lich has until its next death to create a new one.
Phylactery:
Upon creation, a Lich gets one free phylactery of his choice, the phylactery will continue to revive the Lich upon death until such a time that the Lich has reached level 5, upon which, the phylactery may only revive the lich 1d4+Dex more times before it crumbles to dust. The Lich must then create a new phylactery, which will last until the next level divisible by 5.(5, 10, 15, ETC)

Creation of a 2nd level phylactery (working until level 10) requires:

1 artificial item of small or tiny size
2 hours time
5000 GP
200 EXP
Caster level of 1

Gold, experience, and caster level costs are multiplied by five for every level phylactery made. So the GP cost of a level 3 phylactery is 25000, 4th level is 125000, ETC.


Ghoul:
Abilities: Str+4, Dex+2, Con: none, int-2, wis–2,
Medium size
Land speed of 30
Known languages: common. Bonus languages: none
Skill bonuses: +2 on acrobatics and climb,
Special skills: darkvision 60 Ft. bite.
Bite: Ghoul disease: once per round a ghoul may opt to use a bite attack as a free action. The targeted organic opponent must make a fortitude save. If the total amount is less then 15, the opponent will suffer 1d4 damage per turn until it reaches zero hit points, or a cure disease is cast. Target must be within melee range to bite.


Mummy

Abilities: Dex:+4, Con: none, int-2, wis-2,
Medium size
Land speed of 30
Known languages: common. Bonus languages: Giant, Gnoll, undercommon
Skill bonuses: +2 on survival and escape artist.
Special skills: darkvision 60 Ft. dehydration.
Dehydration: if a mummy rolls a natural 20 when attempting to hit an organic opponent, it may opt to exchange its normal attack for a Dehydration attack. Roll 1d8+Dex modifier for damage, if the attack winds up dealing the killing blow, said enemy will crumble to dust. Should the mummy opt to use Dehydration, it forfeits any damage multipliers granted by a standard critical attack. (Ex: a critical hit done with a Club multiplies damage rolled by 2. Dehydration has no such multiplier, despite being done on a natural 20.

 

[Jhaelen]

Wow, where to start?

How are the templates supposed to be balanced against each other?
Why would anyone ever play anything but a vampire?

Also, there's an implicit rule to never use odd ability modifiers.
Are you sure you want to go that route?
How much experience do you have with playing or DMing a standard campaign?

 

[Aeson]

Maybe they're not meant to be balanced. A skeleton isn't balanced against a vampire. A ghoul isn't against a ghost. These are templates not classes.

 

[vezina99]

Maybe they're not meant to be balanced. A skeleton isn't balanced against a vampire. A ghoul isn't against a ghost. These are templates not classes.

Yes, but I think Jhaelen's questions are still valid. Without some sort of balancing, players will either A) always choose vampire or B) resent the GM/Vampire if templates are assigned rather than chosen.

I think some more work needs to be applied to these templates. Perhaps, rather than throwing arbitrary drawbacks on the vampire, special qualities should be assigned to the other templates to make them feel a little more loved. Why is this skeleton unique enough to be played as a character? Make him a chaos-spawned skeleton that has an enervating gaze or something. Without something beyond the physical characteristics of its template, a generic skeleton, the skeleton is playing a serious second fiddle to other templates (more like 4th or 5th, IMO.) Of course, the same idea can be applied to the other templates like the ghoul. Make him a hell-spawned ghoul that burns eternally, or a ghoul with a unique disease that hasn't been encountered yet.

I can understand and accept differing power levels and the concept of some characters just not being equals - I mean, if we were looking for complete balance, PF and 3.5 derivatives aren't the best choice. However, your other, non-vampire players are going to resent the vampire for outdoing them at EVERYTHING not titled "standing next to holy symbols."

 

[Gicko]

Yes, but I think Jhaelen's questions are still valid. Without some sort of balancing, players will either A) always choose vampire or B) resent the GM/Vampire if templates are assigned rather than chosen.

I think some more work needs to be applied to these templates. Perhaps, rather than throwing arbitrary drawbacks on the vampire, special qualities should be assigned to the other templates to make them feel a little more loved. Why is this skeleton unique enough to be played as a character? Make him a chaos-spawned skeleton that has an enervating gaze or something. Without something beyond the physical characteristics of its template, a generic skeleton, the skeleton is playing a serious second fiddle to other templates (more like 4th or 5th, IMO.) Of course, the same idea can be applied to the other templates like the ghoul. Make him a hell-spawned ghoul that burns eternally, or a ghoul with a unique disease that hasn't been encountered yet.

I can understand and accept differing power levels and the concept of some characters just not being equals - I mean, if we were looking for complete balance, PF and 3.5 derivatives aren't the best choice. However, your other, non-vampire players are going to resent the vampire for outdoing them at EVERYTHING not titled "standing next to holy symbols."

They were all created by a powerful necromancer known to his intelligent minions as the "Necromaster" recently, the Necromaster’s item of power had been stolen. and as such, the undead armies he controlled crumbled to dust. Using what little remained of his power; the Necromaster raised a group of undead from the last adventuring group that he had defeated.


As for my DM/playing experience, well this will be my first time DM'ing, but out of the group I’m also the only one who has actually played any kind of D&D.


All of what you say is probably right; I did think the vampires were a little overpowered compared to the others. (It should be noted that the skeleton was actually the first one I made, so in effect his template is the prototype of the prototypes) I was hoping that the weaknesses I gave him would compensate for his overpowered abilities and skills. But if you have any better ideas, please let me know.

 

[vezina99]

All of what you say is probably right; I did think the vampires were a little overpowered compared to the others. (It should be noted that the skeleton was actually the first one I made, so in effect his template is the prototype of the prototypes) I was hoping that the weaknesses I gave him would compensate for his overpowered abilities and skills. But if you have any better ideas, please let me know.

Don't get me wrong - I think your templates are fine as templates, which are usually used for monsters. The thing that you have to consider when using them, though, is that you're using them for players, and that means you have to consider balance between the players.

Basically, the vampire needs more drawbacks, or the other templates need to have powers added like I mentioned. The drawbacks that the vampire has right now are very situational: How many times will the vampire need to cross running water or not be able to find humans? Based on that, I'd go with adding powers since it will make those other players feel more unique, and also because adding more drawbacks to the vampire will make more for the player and you to keep up with.

 

[Jhaelen]

As for my DM/playing experience, well this will be my first time DM'ing, but out of the group I’m also the only one who has actually played any kind of D&D.

Okay. Now, that you're players don't have any D&D experience yet may work for or against you. In any case they'll get their first impression of the game from you.

I would really strongly suggest you first try a test session or two just using standard D&D/Pathfinder rules.

What you're trying to do here is something I'd consider pretty advanced and tricky stuff. I wouldn't want to tackle this unless I had a lot of experience under my belt.

I guess someone already mentioned the 'Libris Mortis' book?
It offers some balanced rules for playing undead characters. If you have the opportunity to do so, I'd recommend to at least have a look at the book and maybe borrow some ideas for your template approach.

Instead of templates that grant every ability immediately, consider having them grant abilities at certain set character levels instead. Slowly add advantages until they grant the full set of abilities that would be available to the monstrous equivalent.

 

[Gicko]

allright, i made some modificaitions, let me know what you think.

again, these are templats for PLAYER charicters.
(list of what was changed is at the bottum)


Skeleton:

Abilities: Str: –1, Dex: +2, Con: always 0

Medium size

Land speed of 30 Ft

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Elven, Infernal, Dwarven, Goblin

Skill bonuses: +3 to climb, +2 to intimidate.

Special skills: immunity to cold, immunity to heat, Damage reduction: 5/bludgeoning (-5 to all attacks not made with bludgeoning weapons) Darkvision to 60 Ft, +1 bonus feat

Undead use Charisma score in place of constitution



Ghost:

Abilities: Str: always 0, Con: always 0, int +2, Wis +4

Medium size

Flight speed of 30ft (no land speed)

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Elvin, Dwarven, Celestial

Skill bonuses: +4 perception and stelth.

Special skills: AC deflection bonus =Cha modifier, Darkvision 60 Ft, immunity to weather, immune to all non-magical attack forms with the exception of holy water, and non-magical attacks made by other incorporeal creatures. Can not give, or be affected by trip or grapple attacks. Weightless. Dexterity modifier applies to a ghosts melee, ranged, and CMB attacks. Unable to weald or be harmed by weapons or armour without the ghost touch bonus.



Vampire:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-lists-and-details/-v/vampire

Abilities: Str +1, Int+1, Wis -2 Cha +3 Con is always 0

Medium size

Land speed of 30

Known languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, Goblin, Draconic, Undercommon

Skill bonuses: +2 on bluff, and stealth

Special skills: Scent, darkvision to 60 Ft +3 natural armour DR 6/silver & magic, uses Charisma score in place of constitution

Other: must feed on the blood of the vampire’s original race at least once per day. Not doing so will result in –1 Str and –2 maximum HP per day until blood is drank. After 10 days without blood, the vampire will die.
Vampires may not have familiars that are not bats or rats.
Vampires may not cross running water unless carried above it in a dry vessel (boat, coffin, ETC)
Vampires must say 5ft (one square) away from mirrors or holy symbols. Vampires may not make touch, melee or grapple attacks on characters holding a holy symbol or mirror.
Vampires may not enter a private residence without an invitation by an owner of said residence.

Blood Drain (Su): A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage. The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit points) each round it drains blood.


Lich

Abilities: Str –2, int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2, Con = 0

Medium size:

Land speed of 30

Known languages: common, Abyssal, infernal, Ignan

Skill bonuses: +2 Knowledge (arcana), and spellcraft.

Special skills: Darkvision 60 Ft, Dr 5/bludgeoning and magic, immunity to cold, immunity to electricity, Rejuvenation: when lich is destroyed, it will regenerate itself via its Phylactery for 1d10 days.

Other: a Lich must select an object of its choice to be its phylactery. This object must be a forged item, and may not be an object such as a rock or plant. Should this object be destroyed, the lich has until its next death to create a new one.



Ghoul:

Abilities: Str+4, Dex-2, Con-all, int-2, wis–3,

Medium size

Land speed of 30

Known languages: common. Bonus languages: none

Skill bonuses: +2 on acrobatics and climb,

Special skills: darkvision 60 Ft. bite.

Bite: Ghoul disease: once per round a ghoul may opt to use a bit attack as a standard action. The targeted organic opponent must make a fortitude save. If the total amount is less then 15, the opponent will suffer 1d4 damage per turn until it reaches zero hit points, or a cure disease is cast. Target must be within melee range to bite.




What I did:
Neafed the vampire abilities, from Str+6, dex+4, int+2, Wis+2 and Cha +4 to current.
Increase the ghoul Str bonus from +3 to +4
Reduced the Vampire skill bonuses from +5 to +2. removed sense motive.
Removed the Lich’s skill bonuses (+4 on perception, sense motive and stealth.) replaced with current.
Reduced total number of skills with skill bonuses to two per race.
Gave Skeletons an additional bonus feat like humans.
Vampires may now only drink the blood of the same race it came from.
Vampires may not enter a private residence without an invitation by an owner of said residence.

 

[vezina99]

That's much better, IMO. I'll have to spend a little bit more time looking over it, but I think these modifications are a step in the right direction!

 

[Set]

Libris Mortis has some notions for 1st level Undead as racial classes.

You could just do a default Gestalt game, with each undead PC automagically gaining levels of their Undead Class for each level they gain in their adventuring class, until they reach whatever the maximum is for their type (so the Ghoul PC will have all of his powers by 5th level, and be able to become a full blown Ghast if he wants, by 8th level, while the Vampire or Wight PC will have to wait for 8 levels to gain full Vampire Spawn / Wight abilities and a Mummy PC would have to wait 13 levels!).

You'd need to add the (sentient) Skeleton, Ghost and Lich to these lists, as Libris Mortis doesn't include them, but they would be easy enough to adapt, I suspect. Ghostwalk also has some good information on how to make a playable incorporeal undead 'ghost' PC.

Another option would be to make all of the PCs Necropolitans (also from Libris Mortis), but flavored with 'racial feats' that give them abilities based on the undead type from which they were created. One could gain Mummy like traits, as he gains levels, another Vampire traits, etc. A mix of Necropolitans-with-Undead-racial-Feats, and 'ghosts' from Ghostwalk (with similar feats allowing them to gain Shadow, Spectre, Wraith, Allip or Ghost traits) could be neat. Each PC starts out sort of 'generically undead' and develops along a path to become more 'ghoulish' or 'ghostly' or 'vampiric.'