Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Wizards & Warlocks -- Hexblades, Raven Queens, and Lore Mastery!

Master of Hexes
Starting at 14th level, you can use your
Hexblade’s Curse again without resting, but
when you apply it to a new target, the curse
immediately ends on the previous target.

Does this mean you can cast it one more time, or over and over again? And does the 1 minute duration reset upon a new target, or does it continue from the previous target?

 

[Thurmas]

Not really. Both Sorc and Wizard have the same spell progression. Sorcs get Font of Magic, Wizards get Arcane recovery.

At 6th level, a sorc has 6 points, which could be: 3 1st-level spells, 2 2nd-level spells, or a 3rd-level spell with 1 SP left over. A 6th level wizard could get: 3 1st level spell, a 1st and a 2nd level spell, or a 3rd level spell. Sorcerer comes out *slightly* ahead.

Although sorcs are a little bit more efficient, I maintain that SPs do equate Spell Slots for the purpose of analyzing resource cost.

I think you are missing the opportunity cost when comparing these. Yes you can convert them into a similar number of spells, but there is no loss for the Wizard to do so, while the Sorcerer loses all of his abilities that make Sorcerers able to do what they do. By spending all of his Sorcery Points to create spell slots, he can't use metamagic, which makes him essentially a wizard with less spells. They don't equate at all, and the Sorcerer certainly loses out.

The pattern I've noticed here in many posts, but not all, is that people are comparing the Lore Wizard to the Sorcerer and saying it is over powered, but not saying it is overpowered compared to other wizard subclasses. That says to me that the subclass isn't overpowered compared to other wizard options, but perhaps the sorcerer is in general under powered compared to the wizard. The Lore wizard just gives an easier way to compare the two.

Like I've said before, I'd love to use this Wizard in a campaign over any other Wizard option. Part of what I think they got right is that I don't see any dead abilities, which I think many of the other Wizard subclasses have (I find the potent cantrip ability of the Evocation wizard to be horrible and pointless, for example). While it may be a little overpowered, I think you could easily tone down and keep the same general feel of what the class offers, even if you remove an ability such as the saving throw change, or change and ability such as any damage type to choose one damage type at character creation that all spells can be changed to.

 

[phantomK9]

Is it really a pact with the tool, though? It is a similar set of magic, in that you draw magical power from the "patron", but I definitely wouldn't try to understand it as the same sort of "pact" as the others. It's a sentient artifact from which you draw power.

The only way this Pact makes any sense to me is through multi-classing into it once you have found one of these powerful weapons. If you are adventuring and come across a powerful sentience weapon, it promises you more power if you "give yourself to it". You then use the weapon to tap into new abilities that it grants you. This would then manifest as multi-classing as a Hexblade.

 

[zaratan]

I think you are missing the opportunity cost when comparing these. Yes you can convert them into a similar number of spells, but there is no loss for the Wizard to do so, while the Sorcerer loses all of his abilities that make Sorcerers able to do what they do. By spending all of his Sorcery Points to create spell slots, he can't use metamagic, which makes him essentially a wizard with less spells. They don't equate at all, and the Sorcerer certainly loses out.

The pattern I've noticed here in many posts, but not all, is that people are comparing the Lore Wizard to the Sorcerer and saying it is over powered, but not saying it is overpowered compared to other wizard subclasses. That says to me that the subclass isn't overpowered compared to other wizard options, but perhaps the sorcerer is in general under powered compared to the wizard. The Lore wizard just gives an easier way to compare the two.

Like I've said before, I'd love to use this Wizard in a campaign over any other Wizard option. Part of what I think they got right is that I don't see any dead abilities, which I think many of the other Wizard subclasses have (I find the potent cantrip ability of the Evocation wizard to be horrible and pointless, for example). While it may be a little overpowered, I think you could easily tone down and keep the same general feel of what the class offers, even if you remove an ability such as the saving throw change, or change and ability such as any damage type to choose one damage type at character creation that all spells can be changed to.

I compared lore master with evoker, that is one of most powerfuls school, and I still think lore is OP, because he can be great with any spell.
About that, to me, there is a big difference of power levels in wizards school, but I think underpower subclasses are normal in any class.

 

[ambroseji]

The pattern I've noticed here in many posts, but not all, is that people are comparing the Lore Wizard to the Sorcerer and saying it is over powered, but not saying it is overpowered compared to other wizard subclasses. That says to me that the subclass isn't overpowered compared to other wizard options, but perhaps the sorcerer is in general under powered compared to the wizard. The Lore wizard just gives an easier way to compare the two.

Like I've said before, I'd love to use this Wizard in a campaign over any other Wizard option. Part of what I think they got right is that I don't see any dead abilities, which I think many of the other Wizard subclasses have (I find the potent cantrip ability of the Evocation wizard to be horrible and pointless, for example). While it may be a little overpowered, I think you could easily tone down and keep the same general feel of what the class offers, even if you remove an ability such as the saving throw change, or change and ability such as any damage type to choose one damage type at character creation that all spells can be changed to.

This is essentially true. In a vacuum, Lore Master is probably a balanced subclass, albeit one that overshadows the weaker wizard subclasses. I'm just not OK with the fact that they stepped on sorcerer's supposed strength (spontaneous adaptability) in creating this subclass class.

I think the true problem is that sorcerers are underpowered, and don't fulfill the their fantasy as advertised. The Sea Sorcerer from last week was my favorite of the bunch because Curse of the Sea actually fulfills that role. The other options felt weak(Pheonix), don't fulfil the class's fantasy (Stone), or both (Favored Soul).

If sorcerer was in a better place mechanically, and Lore Master wasn't doing (very well) the thing sorcerers are supposedly best at, I don't think the comparison would be made.

 

[Thurmas]

This is essentially true. In a vacuum, Lore Master is probably a balanced subclass, albeit one that overshadows the weaker wizard subclasses. I'm just not OK with the fact that they stepped on sorcerer's supposed strength (spontaneous adaptability) in creating this subclass class.

I think the true problem is that sorcerers are underpowered, and don't fulfill the their fantasy as advertised. The Sea Sorcerer from last week was my favorite of the bunch because Curse of the Sea actually fulfills that role. The other options felt weak(Pheonix), don't fulfil the class's fantasy (Stone), or both (Favored Soul).

If sorcerer was in a better place mechanically, and Lore Master wasn't doing (very well) the thing sorcerers are supposedly best at, I don't think the comparison would be made.

Agreed. Also, I think that one issue I've seen with the Sorcerer regarding your original comments about converting spells, is I don't think I've ever actually seen a sorcerer use sorcerer points to convert spells. By the time they are short enough on spells to want to convert to slots, they are also out of sorcery points because they were all spent on metamagic enhancing the spells that they are now out of slots for. Aside from level 2, where you have no metamagic options, the sorcery points are spent before the sorcerer would even desire to convert them.

I agree with your other points. I do think they are underpowered, when compared to wizards at least. Alone, they are fine and fun, but much is lost when put side by side. Sorcerer is one of the few classes I think would benefit from a reworking similar to the Ranger, although I would embrace an edition update for 5E similar to the 3.0 to 3.5 update for every class.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I agree with your other points. I do think they are underpowered, when compared to wizards at least. Alone, they are fine and fun, but much is lost when put side by side. Sorcerer is one of the few classes I think would benefit from a reworking similar to the Ranger, although I would embrace an edition update for 5E similar to the 3.0 to 3.5 update for every class.

I read somewhere that in the first days of the playtest, the sorcerer worked differently. I cant find it anywhere on the internet, but IIRC they were developping more martial/melee aptitude as they spent their magic slot. The concept was, as an exemple, that a Dragon sorcerer was slowly becoming himself more and more a dragon the more they manifested their magic, like gaining scales at 4 spells casted in a day, gaining wings at 8 spell casted, etc.

I'd like to have something like this. Let the mage have all the magic in the world, at the end of the day, when they are out of slots, one's a weakling and the other is a dragon.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Let the mage have all the magic in the world, at the end of the day, when they are out of slots, one's a weakling and the other is a dragon.

Sounds balanced to me.

 

[TwoSix]

I read somewhere that in the first days of the playtest, the sorcerer worked differently. I cant find it anywhere on the internet, but IIRC they were developping more martial/melee aptitude as they spent their magic slot. The concept was, as an exemple, that a Dragon sorcerer was slowly becoming himself more and more a dragon the more they manifested their magic, like gaining scales at 4 spells casted in a day, gaining wings at 8 spell casted, etc.

I'd like to have something like this. Let the mage have all the magic in the world, at the end of the day, when they are out of slots, one's a weakling and the other is a dragon.

It did. It was awesome.

 

[ambroseji]

Agreed. Also, I think that one issue I've seen with the Sorcerer regarding your original comments about converting spells, is I don't think I've ever actually seen a sorcerer use sorcerer points to convert spells. By the time they are short enough on spells to want to convert to slots, they are also out of sorcery points because they were all spent on metamagic enhancing the spells that they are now out of slots for. Aside from level 2, where you have no metamagic options, the sorcery points are spent before the sorcerer would even desire to convert them.

This is true, I just think that because they can be either spells or meta-magic. Meta-magic should be balanced against the cost of a spell slot, and ultimately sorcery points fill the same "design space" as arcane recovery. They are different, to be sure. But, ideally, should be valued similarly.

I agree with you; just clarifying my original point.

I agree with your other points. I do think they are underpowered, when compared to wizards at least. Alone, they are fine and fun, but much is lost when put side by side. Sorcerer is one of the few classes I think would benefit from a reworking similar to the Ranger, although I would embrace an edition update for 5E similar to the 3.0 to 3.5 update for every class.

I'm ready for a Revised Player's Handbook. It can replace the first one, and the MM/DMG can remain untouched.

 

[jrowland]

And yet, try and argue that the sorcerer needs fixing, and you are told how powerful they are and what an immense benefit the ability to alter your spells are.

That is not an argument I am making. Sorcerer was a fix for a problem/playstyle that is no longer valid. Sorcerer is the odd duck, imho, not the wizard, and not the Lore Master Archetype (which fits fine with other classes sans sorcerer, and other wizards).

The odd duck is the sorcerer.