Vampire: the Masquerade - The Sabbat [Rated R]

[Jemal]

Jemal, I wasn't apologizing FOR Reapersaurus, I was apologizing because of him. I am sorry if understanding the distinction is beyond you.

That was deliberately insulting, Shalimar, and I'm not going to take it. Mincing words and insulting someone who's trying his damndest to see both sides of the issue is extremely petty. I'ld demand an apology, except you're too free with those, so they have no value anymore.

And you somehow have the right to dictate to the story-teller?

The only thing I said that could even REMOTELY be construed as telling Toki what to do was when I said "This it to everyone: Speak For Yourself". I fail to see the problem with that, so what was I dictating to him?

I refuse to play in it with a certain party. The person I am speaking of isn't even really a player in our other Vampire game, he posts very rarely maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks or so and in the interim where he leaves other players hanging Barry is forced to treat the character as an NPC(playing the character much better I might add).

If you're going to veil your insults towards 'a cartain party' so thinly, you might as well say it out loud instand of in such a cowardly, petty way. Until you said that I actually had a small amount of respect left for you and was considering this just another argument between fellow gamers. You lost it all with that comment. If you don't have the guts to say it straight, then you aren't deserving of any respect, at least not from me.

You wouldn't jump into a GMs recruiting thread and tell him to change his game and change the game rules would you?

No, but I would (And do) ask him/her if there is anything that can be discussed and possibly changed to make the game more suited to myself, as I have noticed many other players do.

Nothing gives anyone the right to just tell the storyteller to change his game

I don't recall anybody except you TELLING Toki anything. Reap, Ash, and I have ASKED him questions, and you have told him that we shouldn't have, and that everyone who matters agrees with you 100%. It's quiet obvious you don't believe anyone who disagrees with your narrow view deserves to speak, and when they do you apologize to the st b/c they have an opinion, and then 'politely' tell them to take it you way or the highway.

Tokiwong, I am truly sorry for any offense that this group may have presented you, and for any that I personally caused.

Well, I guess I don't have to apologize to you, TOKI, Apparently I'm not worthy of speaking for myself.

If I was Tokiwong I would withdraw the offer post-haste due to the rudeness shown to him, and the pettyness that has been shown on all sides.

The only one who's being petty and Rude is you, and I challenge anyone to come up with a valid quote from me that is both Petty AND NOT taken out-of-context.

Those who don't have your hands raised, find another Storyteller.

YES SIR! SORRY SIR! I didn't know you had been appointed to speak for Toki, but i guess I was wrong. I'll leave, then, and all I have to say is:
To Shali: Good bye and good riddance.
To Toki: Good luck, you'll need it.
To the Mods: I apologize FOR MYSELF for participating in such a heated argument, and I respectfully ask you to ignore any apologies someone else claims to make on my behalf. I am VERY capable of speaking for myself regardless of what 'certain people' think.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Sadly, I am done. I apologize Tokiwong, it has nothing at all to do with your choice of setting, anything else directly related to the game, or anything to do with you at all really.

If you decide to run the game, good luck and best wishes.

It isn't anything personal toward anyone in particular, but as I said in the past, when it stops being fun, I don't see any point in doing it.

 

[reapersaurus]

well, it's disappointing to see people get personal, and heighten problems instead of minimizing them, but if Tokiwong hasn't posted by now, I'd have to assume that he's answered my questions by his ignoring them.

To DM a bunch of intelligent, direct players, any DM that is looking to have fun with a Sabbat game would have to have better communication and true desire to DM than Tokiwong apparently did.
It's a good thing that this happened before too many people dedicated too much time to their characters, or more importantly, to a setting that seems to have questionable merit to some players.

Also, what happened in the Sabbat game should not have affected the Camarilla game, in my opinion, but I adopted a 'live and let live' policy early on - we are all different people, and have vastly different gaming and personality styles.

With Catulle leading that game (a strong DM, dedicated to see an online game thru), the only way for the Camarilla game to not continue to be a stellar example of what can be done with roleplaying online is if the players get needlessly bent out of shape over stuff that is bound to come up in the course of a Chronicle.

I have seen many online games flounder due to the incomplete dedication of the DM on these boards in my time here.
Trust me - if Tokiwong was on the fence about playing, it's best to stop it early, which was the reason for my direct (not IMO 'harsh') questioning of hihs background experience, since I didnt know him and the only way to assess his level of competence and dedication was to... *gasp* ask him.

And if Tokiwong was in it for the long haul, a player asking a few questions, and requesting to include things, shouldn't havemade him blink twice.

If we're seriously trying to play a Sabbat game, a f-*ing SABBAT game, and it falls apart because I asked the DM some questions about his setting, and Kitana viewed the general comments as being 'American elitist" (edit: clarification - I thought her discussion was a great example of exchanging viewpoints, even tho I didn't personally agree with her viewpoints), do you all think there was much chance of success with the game?

Seriously.

We're adults, right?
Communication is our medium of choice here, in an online forum, right?
Why would communicating concerns (that were shared by other players) be something that would de-rail a solid game?

I suggest we still keep our eyes open for a Storyteller that has the cahones to DM a group of adults online, and deal with the adult subject matter that a Sabbat game would inevitably entail.
That is a not-easy couple of characteristics to find in a DM, but if we're lucky enough to find one (thank god Catulle flew in out of nowhere in the Cammy game), I'd be up for still trying a Sabbat game, although I'd mainly be playing for the combat, and playing with Tory.

After thinking about the character sketch I thought up, I realize he's actually a better man than Nikolai is, currently, and would probably be killed eventually by the degenerates, but that'd be fun to play...

well, those are my 3 cents on the subject of what happened, and i don't think i should have to, but I will clarify that I am not personally affected by what happened, and what I say or ask is not intended with any emotional subtext, or personal insinuations, or whatnot.
Never jump to conclusions about what I post, and if you have any concerns or questions about the way my words are/were intended, than you can ask about them, similar to how Kitana did here (unfortunately, these boards are ridiculous about anything remotely political - kind of ironic to be concerned about even as impersonal and broad-brush political discussion as me and Kitana just touched upon, yet we were thinking of playing murderers, monsters, and worse? That is actually one of the more ironic and laughable situations I've seen on the boards...)

I'll edit anything out of this post if anyone has a problem with it - these're really just impersonal observations/impressions...

 

[Catulle]

Well, I thought I'd push this to the top of the queue one way or another...

If Tokiwong is still happy to run a Sabbat game under the circumstances, then I'm all for it (in fact, I'd vastly prefer that option). If not, I'm almost happy to spread my interests as far as running a Sabbat-themed game, with the precise details to come.

Thoughts, anybody?

Regards,

Barry

 

[Tory Adore]

I would like to try out a Sabbat game. Any ST is fine with me as long as they show the patience and courtesy Catulle has shown all of us in the Camarilla game. I'm not new to gaming, but I'm still fairly new to online gaming and know very little about Sabbat. I learned a lot creating N'care though, which I would still like to play if that will work with whomever wants to take the game.

(...and Catulle, I would play in ANY game, Vampire related or not - if you would have me of course - that you ran on the boards - you are an extraordinary ST / DM)

Tory

 

[KitanaVorr]

of course I'm still interested in a Sabbat game, but I'd like a chance to play in a vampire game with you as a player, Barry.

I really would love to have Tokiwong as our ST if he is still willing to rassle in this feisty bunch.

 

[reapersaurus]

Thoughts, anybody?

Well I agree with Kitana, that I'd love to play in a game with you as a player.
But a game can't be played without having a dedicated DM, so unless Tokiwong or anyone steps up to the table, I don't see any other candidates to run a Sabbat game on the boards, though I'd love to see other DM's takes on V:tM.

However, I'm counting things up and all I see is Kit, Tory, me and you.
I don't know if Shalimar is up for continuing, or if anyone else was around, and wanted to jump into the deep end of dramatic vampiric monster-play.

How many players do you guys think is enough for a Sabbat game?

 

[reapersaurus]

After reading back the thread, I'm still surprised that it's not OK to ask questions of a DM.
I asked pointed questions that were not phrased as some would like.... Shalimar went way out of her way to inflame player questions into a big brouhaha..... Jemal responded aggressively.

Big whoop - I phrased questions wrong - she had a bad week - he had had enough- it happens to all of us.
The only thing that seperates adults from kids is the ability to interact with people of different styles and approaches than us, and the dedication to not 'pack up our ball and go home' if it's about something that we want to do.

So do we still want to play Vampire, or not?
I can't believe that smart people like us would let little stuff get in the way of having fun.

If Tokiwong is still reading, or considering to DM Sabbat, I humbly ask:
"Why did you choose Barcelona, Spain?
And why 1978?"

Is it OK to ask questions?
I'm not telling you what to do, I'm asking why/how these restrictions that I see as limitations can better the game, or enhance the game for all concerned.

If Barry is considering DM'ing, my questions would be:
What character generation method would we use?
I don't know Sabbat character generation, but I would love to try the method I posted earlier, that actually allows us to have Skills more than 3 without bankrupting our point allotment.

Explanation of request:
My approach is that it is more fun to be able to play a character that is very good (preferrably uniquely good) at something.
It is very difficult, and costly, to be very good at something when your max ranks in skills is 3.

I have no other CharGen requests/preferences other than that.