VGT Comparisons

[DMFTodd]

I'm another klooger, when I looked two years ago, it was just worlds ahead of the other ones (FG at the time being the only other good one. I don't know if FG has caught up or not yet.)

The main thing is all of the advanced features: Map zooming and scrolling, the ability to play on a giant map; targeting of icons with damage applied with just a couple clicks; character sheets where you can enter all your data; dice-rolling tied to the character to make dice rolling very, very fast and very, very easy (klooge is faster game play at high level than playing face to face); ability to apply effects (Bull str, Fighting Defensively, etc.) and have it adjust all your die rolls automatically; token creator to easily make tokens; and many other things.

Add in the definition file that lets you customize character sheets, definition support which allows house rules, unlimted support for multiple game systems, sound effects, visual effects (a battle board, with tokens, where a PC throws a fireball that explodes with sound and has a fire visual with it is just kinda neat); and it's just a complete package.

I don't find installing Java to be a hardship and all my players have managed to do it. Speed is no problem other than a 3-5 second startup time.

I will ditto the earlier comment that playing with voice-chat software is mandatory. Typing stuff out by hand is just way too slow.

 

[2WS-Steve]

For me, the java problem isn't merely a slow load-up.

When I go to import an icon file (like a saved monster) there's a long wait just to get the folder view open -- then navigating to each sub-folder also has a long wait. In the past I wanted to keep my personal saved materials in My Docs, and navigating out of the base Klooge folder would sometimes simply lock the whole thing up. I don't even try to do that sort of thing now.

Non-java programs don't have these folder navigation problems. Even PCGEN slows down during folder navigation, though not as significantly.

Also, if I need to do on-the-fly editing on a monster during the game I can't be doing very much of it, or various lock-ups and glitches start to happen.

Finally, over the course of a session the lag can sometimes get really bad to my player, 2-4 seconds isn't uncommon and typically occurs a couple times per session. As far as I recall, every session my player has to disconnect and re-connect once in a hope that re-setting will improve things, which it does for a while.

To a certain extent I'm sure that's just the internet, but I don't seem to get lag that bad in my VoiP (Yahoo voice), which again makes me wonder if it's a java thing.

 

[Sigurd]

We use fantasy grounds and have done so for about a year and a half.

It's not perfect but its hugely 'right'.

I like the feel of them supplying a desktop, dice and a way to share pictures -- then they are not involved! Its my gaming table with my friends. I dont think I would use a system that had an external server and a monthly fee. Not when there is even a chance that the DM could run the server.

I haven't liked waiting for the revision. I don't think they are the most cooperative of design houses but I really like the product.

I think there is a large place for someone who wants to make modules for this game. Everything else mostly 'just works' and the background experience is pleasant enough that an appealing module supply would be worth some money to complete the experience. FG will have users who are not programmers or diehards -- they will be willing to pay for adventures etc... (IMHO). Making modules is doable but many would choose to have someone else do it.

Otherwise I think FG has been very clever in making elements of the game simple by using standard file formats and largely exposed XML data structures.

It is not open source but it is pretty intuitively open. I think that and its performance is the reason I like it.


Sigurd

 

[Mark CMG]

I will ditto the earlier comment that playing with voice-chat software is mandatory. Typing stuff out by hand is just way too slow.

I find this is also a plus in my book.

I dont think I would use a system that had an external server and a monthly fee.

That's definitely a deal breaker for me, at this time, too.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I dont think I would use a system that had an external server and a monthly fee.

That's definitely a deal breaker for me, at this time, too.

While I wouldn't pay a monthly fee for any of the existing solutions, I could imagine doing so for a high-end solution that included an external server.

I think a fair bit of my problems with lag and occasional disconnects are due to the fact that my computer is essentially hosting the server, and my computer has all the crap on it that most home computers do, making it an inefficient server.

Also, setting up the port forwarding and firewall exclusions and configuring my router, then random difficulties with dynamic IPs are a major headache -- a headache I don't have with external server mediated software like MMO's or Magic Online.

 

[heruca]

You make some good points there, Steve.

The other factor to consider would be what extra content or additional services were afforded by a subscription-based service.

The main factor would have to be that the price be set right. I think few people would pay $15-20/month, but many might consider something in the $5-10/month range.

 

[Redrobes]

The java is still a bit of a pain though, so I'm going to give Fantasy Grounds another try when version 2 comes out.

Since this posting all started with the iConvention VTG comparison chart. Why not sign up for a load of different demos at iConvention.org and try them all out there. ViewingDale has some 'high end' capabilities, has low lag times and does not use Java. Why not give it a try ? Its a free convention. All you have to lose is the time and there are some freebies donated by many of the vendors to win in various prize draws (some of which have already taken place). Registration is open now and demo sign up follows a little later.

 

[Sigurd]

Voice chat

Voice chat is rather easy to do independently.

I set up a teamspeak server with very little trouble and I think it will work as well as any other solution out there. I found I couldnt use it because most of my games stretched into the wee hours and the players wives objected to the noise.

Seriously though, with Voip and all the other apps trying to make internet speech a normal thing I wouldn't worry about an app having voice chat. It will be along just fine on its own.

S

 

[heruca]

One advantage of voice chat being handled by another app is that should something screwy happen with the virtual tabletop program (e.g., it crashes), then you can still use the voice chat to coordinate the rehosting of the game.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Since this posting all started with the iConvention VTG comparison chart. Why not sign up for a load of different demos at iConvention.org and try them all out there. ViewingDale has some 'high end' capabilities, has low lag times and does not use Java. Why not give it a try ? Its a free convention. All you have to lose is the time and there are some freebies donated by many of the vendors to win in various prize draws (some of which have already taken place). Registration is open now and demo sign up follows a little later.

I actually already own most of the apps that intrigue me, and have used OpenRPG, WebRPG, and GRiP in the past.

I've only got one player and he runs multiple chars so KloOge currently works by far the best -- despite the java problems.

I've looked at ViewingDale but I suspect it doesn't quite fit my needs the way KloOoge does or Fantasy Grounds perhaps will -- the round tracking, in-application stat tracking, putting together packages of modules and encounters, and so on are things I find extremely useful in an online game.

Like heruca and Sigurd say, though, having the voice chat is invaluable -- but I prefer it as a serpate application. It's doubtful any small RPG programmers (or even WotC!) will be able to compete with Skype or Yahoo voice for resources and funding, and if anything happens in the main program you can still talk.