We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[JacktheRabbit]

Episode 9 opening crawl:

Luke Skywalker is dead. Han Solo is dead. Princess Leia is dead. Chewbacca's still around, sure, but since when did he have any useful dialog ...

WWWRRAAAAGGGHHHH!!!!!

 

[JacktheRabbit]

In war time, soldiers are executed for less in many real world militaries. Elaborate hearings are what happens in peace time. Someone who disobeys direct orders and gets multiple people killed in the middle of a war zone gets hung from the nearest tree.

Trying to play the "real world military" card when talking about Star Wars is ridiculous.



So, a criminal defector from the enemy is being given command of one of the most important missions in the entire war because... he's cute? Again, this is a really, really odd hill to die on.

Please point out the last time a real world military not located in some third world crapfest decided to hang someone from a tree.

Also EVERYONE in the Rebellion is guilty of High Treason since the Empire was technically formed legally. I believe one of the dozens of novels even states that Mon Mothma voted in favor so as to not stand out in opposition. So using the fact that Han is a defector and a smuggler as marks against him makes little sense and neglects to note that his skills/knowledge from each background could be quite useful in sneaking an entire ship onto a Imperial controlled planet.

 

[Hussar]

Please point out the last time a real world military not located in some third world crapfest decided to hang someone from a tree.

Also EVERYONE in the Rebellion is guilty of High Treason since the Empire was technically formed legally. I believe one of the dozens of novels even states that Mon Mothma voted in favor so as to not stand out in opposition. So using the fact that Han is a defector and a smuggler as marks against him makes little sense and neglects to note that his skills/knowledge from each background could be quite useful in sneaking an entire ship onto a Imperial controlled planet.

Ummm, the entire rebel army doesn't have one infiltration specialist? Not one? Instead they have to choose a criminal with no military experience, give him the highest rank possible because... why again? and send him to lead (since when do generals lead infiltration missions?) the assault on the most important mission of the war.

And five minutes into the mission, he goes off mission, abandons his men, all to go chasing after his girlfriend.

Yeah, not really seeing it.

Oh, yeah, it's like the farm boy who, like our general, ignores direct orders to rejoin the fleet after Hoth in order to chase after a personal mission that he received from a dead dude while he was freezing to death. Yeah, that wouldn't get someone pulled off the line at all. Nope. No problems here.

Personally, I thought it was a refreshing change to see a character actually have to suffer any consequences for completely and utterly failing their command.

 

[Mallus]

Independence Day saw anyone who could fly be given a fighter.

This is true, and while I love Independence Day, it wouldn't be my go-to example in a discussion of realism in film. Unless, of course, the point I was making was: "Realism doesn't matter one whit in some movies".

 

[Mallus]

My point is that of course they will get more equipment but it will be as handouts from allies because it is a movie and they are the main characters. It is not because they proved to everyone that they deserve free gear.

OK. So your point is that the remnant of the Resistance forces rallying support won't be justified, or presented in a dramatically satisfying way. Am I getting that right?

I concede this may come to pass. But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out you're judging a film that hasn't been made yet. We'll see in 2019 if the survivors from Krait "prove to everyone they deserve free gear".

The original rebellion had a fleet that was made up of loyal and sympathetic planetary fleet ships, the Mon Cal fleet that as a race joined the rebellion, and things like X-Wings from a company who key people defected to the rebellion and brought the equipment with them. Beyond that they acquired what they could purchase on the black market or steal. So they were assets they possessed when the rebellion started or directly acquired during the rebellion.

How much of this do we see in the actual films?

You are right in regards to Rogue One and it makes it the best Star Wars movie out of the 9 we have to date. I only hope Han Solo is as good.

What I really liked about Rogue One was how tonally different it was from every other Star Wars movie. It was an honest-to-god war movie that still managed to feel like Star Wars. I hope Disney keeps broadening the franchise in a similar way; like the way the MCU works, with films as dissimilar as Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy.

I had hopes for Solo when it was Miller and Lord's baby. I thought it was genius to hand a Star Wars project to the LEGO Movie team. Now that's Ron Howard... I have concerns.

edit: why couldn't Disney get Edgar Wright for Solo?! Why?!!

 

[Ryujin]

I can't recall seeing anyone post a link to this interesting examination of the movie, from a rather interesting source; Joseph Gordon-Levitt. It covers a lot of what has been said here in a single blog post.

https://medium.com/@hitRECordJoe/a-new-old-skywalker-253efda3809c

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

WWWRRAAAAGGGHHHH!!!!!

Point. Game, set, match.

 

[Quickleaf]

I can't recall seeing anyone post a link to this interesting examination of the movie, from a rather interesting source; Joseph Gordon-Levitt. It covers a lot of what has been said here in a single blog post.

https://medium.com/@hitRECordJoe/a-new-old-skywalker-253efda3809c

I respect the heck out of Joseph Gordon-Levitt as an actor, but this should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt as (he admits) is a personal friend of writer/director Rian Johnson. Justifying Luke turning into a bitter defeated old man, he claims "No one is a perfect hero or a perfect villain, we’re more complicated than that, every one of us." Sure! But that doesn't mean taking the character in an uncharacteristic unsympathetic direction that undermines the virtues that Jedi are about!

I would not recommend The Last Jedi at all, and would rank it marginally above the prequel trilogy and definitely below The Force Awakens & RotJ. Overall, it felt horribly amoral & unsatisfying to me.

Wasted potential. There are so many storybeats that feel undeveloped and confused. Most of all Gwendoline Christie's acting talent is horribly wasted on Captain Phasma. I get that trans-media marketing is in these days, but whoever wrote Phasma's role in this film (and TFA for that matter) ...well, I have no idea what they were thinking.

Erratic pacing. Throughout the film I had trouble following what was going on and even more trouble getting invested in the story. Why? Most of all because TLJ never hits its stride with pacing. Scenes cut abruptly. The point behind going to the casino is quickly lost. Maybe it was an editing problem?

Too many characters. Too many characters with not enough time to get to know & care about them. Was her name Mae, the one who fell for Finn? I wanted to get into her character arc, thinking that at some point it would tie back to the death of her sister...but the film never gets there.

Over-reliance on CGI & special effects & explosions. I get it, Star Wars has all this stuff. But that's not what makes the movies great; it's the myths and characters. The film opens with a space battle where it's hard to care what's going on – there is a reason A New Hope builds up to the big space battle at the end. The Poggs (? whatever those little things were) seemed straight out of an anime. The casino scene reminded me of shades of the prequel trilogy with its egregious CGI.

Accents & breaking the Star Wars milieu. That "Texan" in the casino? WTF? That's the sort of thing we saw already in the prequels and don't need to see again. And what about the Code Breaker's mannerisms, saying "yeah man" and "cracking"? That felt completely out of place!

Forced and sometimes formulaic dialogue. Especially the lines given to the new actors...those often felt awkward, like I was watching a sitcom or some other genre. Even the screenwriting of Luke Skywalker didn't feel at all like his character & was only saved by Mark Hamill's great performance.

Luke Skywalker deconstructed. Why? Why treat the character with such disrespect? I fully agree with Mark Hamill’s thoughts about Luke Skywalker’s character. Rian Johnson’s vision was completely at odds with that, and I felt the story suffered because of Rian Johnson’s writing (it was *not* Star Wars) and direction (the pacing was erratic and never hit its stride). Jedi don't give up, period.

Strange cinematography choices that felt un-Star Wars. The most egregious of these were the "National Geographic" cutscenes during Rey's training...cool in another sci-fi or sci-fantasy film, but not Star Wars-y at all. And the silence with – purple-hair lady? what was her name? – sacrificing herself by warping into th First Order? Fell totally flat for me because the film hadn't spent the time to get me invested in her character. Pretty graphics though.

Storytelling that was just a mess. "Sacred Jedi texts"? where did those come from? why should I care? Who was Snoke? Oh wait, it doesn't actually matter. Who were Rey's parents? Oh wait, it actually doesn't matter. How does Leia do the spacewalk thing? We don't need to explain that, look how cool the CGI on her face looks! Ooo, aaah. The whole film builds up the mystical bond between Rey and Kylo...building up the chance for his redemption (or her fall to the dark side)...and instead they are right back where they started with little change to their characters. What was the point of what we just watched then?

On the surface it *looked* like "Star Wars", but the nihilistic and cynical themes did not feel like Star Wars to me. I didn't leave the theater uplifted like after watching Empire Strikes Back or even Rogue One, for example. Everything felt muddled and grey and gloomy - and that's not the Star Wars I know and love. Is this really what a new generation wants? I sincerely hope not.

 

[Mercurius]

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] (Hi Aaron!), very well put. The more I look back on TLJ, the more off-putting and frankly unmemorable I find it to be. I saw it less than a month ago and can't remember the plot thread, start to finish. In fact, as problematic as the first two prequels were due to the usual and well-earned complaints--bad acting, Jar-Jar Binks, no romantic chemistry, etc--I think as a technical movie, TLJ is the worst of the franchise. It took the pleasantly nostalgic fan-fic of TFA and tried to grow up, but failed both at pleasantly nostalgic fan-fic and as a uniquely dramatic entry into the franchise.

#notmystarwars

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

#notmystarwars is a bit overly melodramatic for me, and reeks of the "not Trek" movement for the JJ.Abrams movies or Discovery.

But I guess #absolutelynotwhatIwouldhavedoneorwanted would fit.

But if we want to be melodramatic about it:

The Last Jedi - The Highlander 2 of Star Wars?
(a movie people pretend doesn't even exist)

A bit less perhaps:

The Last Jedi - The Terminator 3 or 4 of the Terminator franchise?
The Last Jedi - The Alien 3 or 4 of the Alien franchise?
(aka continuations/sequels most likely ignored in futured installments).

But Star Wars might be a bit too big for that to happen.