We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[JacktheRabbit]

I doubt it. The Emperor was the one who intentionally laid & baited a trap that the Alliance couldn't pass up. He WANTED his new DS to be sitting there shooting at Rebel capitol ships.

If there was no rebel fleet then the DS2 assuming it can would hyperspace out the instant the shield drops. Though honestly they should have left even with the fleet there when the shield dropped. So maybe the hyperdrive was not functional.

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[JacktheRabbit]

You mean like how they send Han Solo in to blow up the shield base on Endor? I mean, doesn't the Rebellion have ANY covert ops specialists? No, instead we're going to send in a completely untrained civilian.

Again, this is the point I made earlier. The convenient "forgetting" of the sins of the earlier movies in order to "prove" how the new movies are so bad.

I'd also point out that she demotes Poe for disobeying direct orders. Y'know, that pesky thing that trained military people ALWAYS get demoted for? I know, it's totally unbelievable that Leia would demote someone for something so trivial, but, hey, why be reasonable? Much more fun to try to prove how bad something is by playing very fast and loose with facts.

No. In real militaries people are demoted after elaborate hearings where all evidence is considered. Not as part of a 2 minute conversation.

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[JacktheRabbit]

According to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endor_strike_team
Han Solo signed up with the Alliance permanently and had been given the commission to act as a General. Not exactly a completely untrained civilian or considered as such.

Han Solo was a smuggler as is the Onion Knight in GoT both considered far more valuable and skilled (despite their lack of training) than a regular civilian.

That is not to say that I disagree with your overall position, but perhaps that is not case in this instance.

Smuggler, trained in the imperial military depending on which history is the real one AND he was leading an entire team of commandos.

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[Maxperson]

Smuggler, trained in the imperial military depending on which history is the real one AND he was leading an entire team of commandos.

We'll find out if he was trained in the imperial military in about May of this year.

 

[Jester David]

The battle in ROTJ does not make a whole lot of sense for the reason you mention. The only thoughts that come to mind are that the location of the DS was not known well enough for fighters to jump in close. They would have been out a ways and that would make them targets for Cap Ships anti-fighter weaponry. Second the Emperor is reported to be in the DS so it makes sense to throw everything in because killing the Emperor is basically worth any material cost. Finally, sending in only fighters means you are sending anyone whose ship is damaged in the fight on a suicide run. There would be no cap ships to retreat to.

I imagine the capital ships were there to take on the Star Destroyers guarding the incomplete Death Star to leave the fighters free to attack the station.

Leia has shown no competence since the start of the new series. Heck they started with her sending a Fight Jock on a covert mission. You mean the resistance doesnt have any covert agents to you know, send on a covert mission? As we saw in Rogue One the Rebellion understood well the need for covert forces, why all of a sudden are there none here? Instead you send a fighter jock, a profession not known for humility on a covert mission, which would only feed his "think on his feet" and "fly by the seat of his pants" pilot personality. Of course he is going to continue acting that way and the result she gets miffed and demotes him for losing lives destroying a FO Super Cap ship.

Was it a covert mission? Really, it was a fetch quest: fly into enemy space, pick up the data, and fly out. A pilot who can run a blockade is probably more useful in that mission than a spy.

 

[Kaodi]

I am not really hung up on the training time like some people (protagonists becoming skilled super fast is par for the course for ALL movies), but I can point out, having just watched ESB a few days ago, that Yoda says he has been training Jedi for eight hundred years. Any student under his tutelage could reasonable be expected to progress more quickly than one under Lukes, all other things being equal.

 

[Mallus]

In real militaries people are demoted after elaborate hearings where all evidence is considered. Not as part of a 2 minute conversation.

On the other hand, in real militaries civilian farm boys with magical powers aren't immediately given flight clearance --and a fighter-- to attack enemy targets the size of the Moon.

You may have noticed the Star Wars films are somewhat unrealistic.

Or not, as the case may be!

 

[Mallus]

Of course Poe will get another ship, its a flipping movie, they will all get new ships and new everything, but it wont be there.

Is this a typo? I can't parse your meaning.

It will be allies giving them handouts because they lost EVERYTHING they had before.

As opposed to the original Rebellion, who bought their military hardware after a tremendously successful IPO?

Can you clarify? I feel like your trying to say something by describing the rallying of allies against the First Order as getting "handouts", but I can't quite understand what.

As we saw in Rogue One the Rebellion understood well the need for covert forces, why all of a sudden are there none here?

Rogue One is the only Star Wars film that actually seemed like a war movie, where the Rebellion really came off as a desperate resistance movement.

There's a good reason for this. Rogue One was assembled from a smaller number of cinematic influences. It's more The Dirty Dozen and other assorted WW2-era movies than Flash Gordon - plus it leaves out the Campbell, the Kurosawa, the fairytale princesses, the overt Western references, etc.

For example, Cassian Andor is a straight-up resistance fighter that wouldn't be out of place in Vichy France. He's not a samurai-wizard-gunslinger-cop.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Is this a typo? I can't parse your meaning.


As opposed to the original Rebellion, who bought their military hardware after a tremendously successful IPO?

Can you clarify? I feel like your trying to say something by describing the rallying of allies against the First Order as getting "handouts", but I can't quite understand what.


Rogue One is the only Star Wars film that actually seemed like a war movie, where the Rebellion really came off as a desperate resistance movement.

There's a good reason for this. Rogue One was assembled from a smaller number of cinematic influences. It's more The Dirty Dozen and other assorted WW2-era movies than Flash Gordon - plus it leaves out the Campbell, the Kurosawa, the fairytale princesses, the overt Western references, etc.

For example, Cassian Andor is a straight-up resistance fighter that wouldn't be out of place in Vichy France. He's not a samurai-wizard-gunslinger-cop.

Yes there was a typo. My point is that of course they will get more equipment but it will be as handouts from allies because it is a movie and they are the main characters. It is not because they proved to everyone that they deserve free gear.

The original rebellion had a fleet that was made up of loyal and sympathetic planetary fleet ships, the Mon Cal fleet that as a race joined the rebellion, and things like X-Wings from a company who key people defected to the rebellion and brought the equipment with them. Beyond that they acquired what they could purchase on the black market or steal. So they were assets they possessed when the rebellion started or directly acquired during the rebellion.

Now we have a dozen or so people sitting on a ship that is Chewbacca's private property with no resources at all and hoping someone on the Outer Rim will give them what they need. Heck, they are so poorly equipped and organized that they thought the planet they were retreating to was well stocked and armed only to get there and find dusty computers and barely function land skimmers.

You are right in regards to Rogue One and it makes it the best Star Wars movie out of the 9 we have to date. I only hope Han Solo is as good.

 

[billd91]

Yes there was a typo. My point is that of course they will get more equipment but it will be as handouts from allies because it is a movie and they are the main characters. It is not because they proved to everyone that they deserve free gear.

The original rebellion had a fleet that was made up of loyal and sympathetic planetary fleet ships, the Mon Cal fleet that as a race joined the rebellion, and things like X-Wings from a company who key people defected to the rebellion and brought the equipment with them. Beyond that they acquired what they could purchase on the black market or steal. So they were assets they possessed when the rebellion started or directly acquired during the rebellion.

Now we have a dozen or so people sitting on a ship that is Chewbacca's private property with no resources at all and hoping someone on the Outer Rim will give them what they need. Heck, they are so poorly equipped and organized that they thought the planet they were retreating to was well stocked and armed only to get there and find dusty computers and barely function land skimmers.

Sure, the Rebellion had some pretty sweet resources...a good (and undefined) span of time into its existence. It certainly wouldn't have started like that and, based on what we've seen in Rogue One, it almost didn't hold together on news of the Death Star's existence in spite of its X-wings, Mon Calamari ships, and numbers. But then a plucky mission by the protagonists and their support brought everyone back around in time to win their first major engagement in A New Hope.

I don't know what's in store for Episode 9. But it'll probably follow a similar pattern - their allies may not have rallied in time for the fight on Crait, but with Snoke dead, several star destroyers wrecked, and Luke Skywalker sacrificing himself to cover an escape, I expect people will rally to the Resistance's flag in some way.