Grazzt
Demon Lord
Yep. Same here. PJ nailed it for me as well.
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What defines D&D ?
- Thread starter Thanael
- Start date
Yep. Same here. PJ nailed it for me as well.
Lord Xtheth
First Post
What defines D&D?
People
The people who get together and play the game, have fun, and talk about it later. Those people can chose to play whatever version of the game there is, whatever house rules they want, and whatever restrictions they want to have.
Its the people playing the game that define the game.
People
The people who get together and play the game, have fun, and talk about it later. Those people can chose to play whatever version of the game there is, whatever house rules they want, and whatever restrictions they want to have.
Its the people playing the game that define the game.
Aus_Snow
First Post
Philotomy Jurament's post was remarkably similar to one of my own, in a thread not so long back, in the main General RPG forum. 
Not something I would've foreseen, perhaps - given our mostly rather different tastes in games, or so it would seem - but there you go. Anyway, suffice it to say, I pretty much agree.
Added to which, I'll also note that I don't in fact run or play D&D, by my own definition.
Oh well.
Not something I would've foreseen, perhaps - given our mostly rather different tastes in games, or so it would seem - but there you go. Anyway, suffice it to say, I pretty much agree.
Added to which, I'll also note that I don't in fact run or play D&D, by my own definition.
Oh well.
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VanRichten
First Post
Ultimately since we are defining D&D differently we have to consider are we mechanically defining it or are we defining the experience that is D&D.
Mechanically I agree with PJ. Because right now 4E just isn't it. 3.X did deviate a great deal from 2E but it did still keep a majority of what was still there.
Now for the experience. Well that cannot be greatly defined. As all of the answers you will ever see can be felt playing Fantasy Hero, Palladium Fantasy, and other fantasy based games.
4E was created by WoTC to tap into a community they wanted more influence over. TSR tried this when they created the 5th Age Dragonlance right when Magic: The Gathering was at its peak and was drawing players from D&D. The unfortunate side effect of this that it was a failure for TSR.
Whether you like 4E or not, whether you feel it is D&D or not, The mechanics of it are completely different than has ever existed in D&D before. Even though you can argue the experience is the same, so could have been argued by 5th Age Dragonlance, Palladium Fantasy, and Fantasy Hero. All of which can give you that feel.
Mechanically I agree with PJ. Because right now 4E just isn't it. 3.X did deviate a great deal from 2E but it did still keep a majority of what was still there.
Now for the experience. Well that cannot be greatly defined. As all of the answers you will ever see can be felt playing Fantasy Hero, Palladium Fantasy, and other fantasy based games.
4E was created by WoTC to tap into a community they wanted more influence over. TSR tried this when they created the 5th Age Dragonlance right when Magic: The Gathering was at its peak and was drawing players from D&D. The unfortunate side effect of this that it was a failure for TSR.
Whether you like 4E or not, whether you feel it is D&D or not, The mechanics of it are completely different than has ever existed in D&D before. Even though you can argue the experience is the same, so could have been argued by 5th Age Dragonlance, Palladium Fantasy, and Fantasy Hero. All of which can give you that feel.
Psion
Adventurer
Well, I could make a long list, but as the OP is on about what might inspire me to comment on the ways in which 4e has drifted from the folded.
Core Races: Human, Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Halfling, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome. Each race missing from that list, or added to the core set that is not on the list deviates from the D&Dness of the game.
Core Races: Human, Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Halfling, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome. Each race missing from that list, or added to the core set that is not on the list deviates from the D&Dness of the game.
Verdande
First Post
I'd say that D&D is a game about warriors, clerics, wizards, and theives breaking into dungeons, killing kobolds, goblins, orcs, and dragons, and taking their stuff.
Classes
Levels
Lots of combat
Dungeons
Nifty monsters
Magic
The rest is just fluff, like the great wheel and alignments and vancian magic and the quibbly bits of druids and bards and gnomes and stuff. To put it basically, does your story revolve around any of those things? If it does, I feel seriously sorry for you.
Classes Levels Lots of combat Dungeons Nifty monsters MagicThe rest is just fluff, like the great wheel and alignments and vancian magic and the quibbly bits of druids and bards and gnomes and stuff. To put it basically, does your story revolve around any of those things? If it does, I feel seriously sorry for you.
I'd say that D&D is a game about warriors, clerics, wizards, and theives breaking into dungeons, killing kobolds, goblins, orcs, and dragons, and taking their stuff.
The rest is just fluff, like the great wheel and alignments and vancian magic and the quibbly bits of druids and bards and gnomes and stuff. To put it basically, does your story revolve around any of those things? If it does, I feel seriously sorry for you.
Exactly. It's the experience, not the system. If the system can enhance the experience for better than that is a big plus. And 4E does exactly that [IMO].
Philotomy Jurament
First Post
The problem, there, is that a system like Rolemaster meets all those criteria. But most people would agree that Rolemaster is not D&D.
The game shouldn't be *about* the system, but I think the system matters to the way the game plays and feels, and D&D has a history and certain "traditions" and "philosophies" in its system, as well as in its fluff. It's not a black-and-white, cut and dried issue, of course. There's plenty of wiggle room.
The game shouldn't be *about* the system, but I think the system matters to the way the game plays and feels, and D&D has a history and certain "traditions" and "philosophies" in its system, as well as in its fluff. It's not a black-and-white, cut and dried issue, of course. There's plenty of wiggle room.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Hero
Maybe a difference is that D&D is also typically a pretty simple system, with easy basic rules, lots of exceptions (class abilities that break the mold, primary example have always been spells), and that seem to focus more on playability then complexity. (Yeah, AD&D might have hundreds of Polearms, but how complex where the differences between them?). The D&D game systems generally seems to favor abstraction over detail (evidenced by the fact that every edition had classes, levels and hit points)
But in the end, is it really important to define what D&D is? Isn't it more important figuring out what you want _like_? (and maybe why so? Nostalgia? Playability game system? "Realistic" feeling? Focus on combat & action? Rolling high or low?)
Ander00
First Post
At the most basic level, it's a class-based system that is about rolling a d20 to kill things, followed by taking their stuff. In pseudo-medieval fantasy trappings.
There are, of course, a lot of other factors at play, many of them highly subjective and/or fuzzy. For example, magic-users having to cope with a clunky and limiting magic system and, at the end of the day, still making reality their bitch, is something I consider to be very much D&D. 4E has gotten rid of that (a move I can appreciate, even if it makes 4E feel a little less D&D to me), amongst other things.
It's not all bad, though I would've liked the (potentially, time will tell) superior game system not to come with inferior fluff. I can still roll a d20 to kill a Beholder or Illithid and take its stuff, or go plane-hopping and get caught up in a conflict between Githyanki and Githzerai, or do any number of other things D&D.
cheers
There are, of course, a lot of other factors at play, many of them highly subjective and/or fuzzy. For example, magic-users having to cope with a clunky and limiting magic system and, at the end of the day, still making reality their bitch, is something I consider to be very much D&D. 4E has gotten rid of that (a move I can appreciate, even if it makes 4E feel a little less D&D to me), amongst other things.
It's not all bad, though I would've liked the (potentially, time will tell) superior game system not to come with inferior fluff. I can still roll a d20 to kill a Beholder or Illithid and take its stuff, or go plane-hopping and get caught up in a conflict between Githyanki and Githzerai, or do any number of other things D&D.
cheers
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