What do you dislike about 1E?

[The_Gunslinger658]

Hi-

It seems to me there are a few people who seem to miss 1E but I sure as hell dont miss it. What a pain in the butt it was to look up countless tables or try to undertsand badly written rules. This I think for all of its faults makes 3.5 shine, I rarely have to look at my DM's screen nowadays.


Scott

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Well, 1e was very poorly organized, but the proliferation of rules in 3.x hardly helps. You now have to look up different rules, decide how they interact, and consult several different sources for any official or (more likely) quasi-official errata or ruling on which one takes precedence. When that fails, long theads on email lists and the internet debate the issue, usually without definitive resolution.

In 1e, it was simple: the DM said so. The combat + save tables were pain, but they were on the DM's screen (either store-bought or home-made), so that reduced a lot of the look-up time.

Sorry to sound so negative. I really like 3.x D&D. But I just started running a Call of Cthulhu game, and it's so much fun to run a game with one book. My backpack is 10 pounds lighter when I go to the CoC game!

 

[Crothian]

What did you really need to look up in first ewdtion? THe pain in the butt stuff was level limits for non humans really.

1e was a DM's game, it had few options for the players and gave them little power. 3e is a players game giving the players all the rules and options. They are different and not all the chqanges have been good.

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

I have many fond memories of 1E game days, but like Crothian said, it really did limit leveling for non-humans which was a pain. That is why so many of the players I was associated with when they played a demi-human they would multiclass with one class always being a thief. Why? Because the thief class was the only class in 1E that allowed no level limits for dwarves, elves, gnomes, etc.

Still, with 1E, all you really needed was the 3 core books and we certainly had tons of hours of game play based on those rules and those rules alone.

 

[SWBaxter]

Well, 1e was very poorly organized, but the proliferation of rules in 3.x hardly helps. You now have to look up different rules, decide how they interact, and consult several different sources for any official or (more likely) quasi-official errata or ruling on which one takes precedence. When that fails, long theads on email lists and the internet debate the issue, usually without definitive resolution.

Absent the internet stuff, the same thing happened in 1E, only generally much worse since rules were so badly scattered.

In 1e, it was simple: the DM said so.

Same applies in any other version, too. Any DM who quashed silly rules arguments by fiat in 1E - and I was one of them - is quite capable of doing the same in 3E.

 

[Bront]

If I remember right, Saves and To hit tables weren't in the PHB, so you needed the DMG to even complete a character.

A total lack of skills hurt the game. Different experience tables per class was always strange as well. I also never liked how some stats worked differently for different classes (Str and Con).

It was fun, but many of my friends and I moved on to other systems eventualy. I know people who won't touch 3.0/3.5 because of their extreme dislike for experiences with 1st or 2nd Ed.

 

[francisca]

Well, let me state that I am currently DMing a 1e Greyhawk game, and the players and I are enjoying it quite well.

What don't I like about it? Well, let's see (note much of this is personal pref, not so much issues with the system, per se:
--Rangers in Platemail casting magic missle - doesn't fit my idea of a Ranger.
--Bards - should have been their own class
--Monks - can't put my finger on it, I just hate 1e monks, always have.
--Psionics - just read it sometime - even Gygax himself hates it.
--Weapon speeds and AC adjustment - again, even Gygax dislikes these
--No save for sleep - makes it way too powerful at low levels, IMO.
--Just about everything about the new (at the time) classes introduced in UA - munchkin city (note: I should really give them a spin again, but I have such a bad impression..)
--One spell at first level for Magic-users - sure, it's supposed to be a balancing factor, but I think it's bit too harsh.
--Initiative "system" - if you try to do it simple, by the book, why have segments? Trying to reason it out, is too much of a pain in the butt. (and I have seen Scot Gregg's explanation, it's quite thorough and well done, but I needed that in 1983.)
--Segments used to really get on my nerves, but now, not so much.

Most of these issues have been alleviated in my game in tried and true 1e fashion: the house rule. I have two variant ranger classes, give MUs bonus spells just like clerics (using INT, of course), disallow psionics and bards, have my own init system, etc... back in the 80's, when we were confused, we'd fall back to what we did in the Moldvay basic set.

Oh, and for those of you who were griping about the save/combat charts, Lakofka had an article in Dragon, wherein he consolidated them into two tables, one for saves the other for combat. I've recreated them in excel, and they now fit on one sheet. if anyone out there playing 1e would like them, PM me.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the flogging from both 1e and 3e fanboys......

 

[Nightcloak]

--Psionics - just read it sometime.

*Shudders*

 

[Bryan898]

The thing I most dislike about 1E is that is was before my time unfortunately... therefore I can't take part in such wonderful threads about remembering the good ole days before there was dirt when 1E ruled the RPG land. ;( Fortunately I was lucky enough to experience the 1E modules, and they were stellariffic

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

The thing I most dislike about 1E is that is was before my time unfortunately... therefore I can't take part in such wonderful threads about remembering the good ole days before there was dirt when 1E ruled the RPG land. ;( Fortunately I was lucky enough to experience the 1E modules, and they were stellariffic

Ya, the 1E modules were always a blast to play. Queen of the Demon Webpits has to be my all time fav. hacknslash goodness!


Scott