What do you think of Marvel post-Endgame?

[briggart]

1) Black Widow: It was ok on its own. As part of MCU, it would have been better in the middle of phase 2, allowing to flesh out Natasha a bit more and stand on her own. I always felt that in all the other movies she was, she has always been defined by her relations to male characters (Hawkeye, Cap, Hulk).
2) Haven't seen it.
3) Liked it, but being familiar with the comics, the "Mysterio is the bad guy" reveal didn't do a thing for me. I've watched it with a friend who didn't know who Mysterio was supposed to be, and they were more excited by it.
4) Worst of the bunch for me. Better than Thor 2 and Iron man 2, but close to the bottom of my personal MCU rankings.
5) Best of the bunch. Plus Matt Murdock!!!!!!!!!!
6) I had high hopes for this, but it fell a bit short. I would have preferred if Wanda falling to the Dark Side happened/started during this movie, setting her up as the antagonist/villain for Strange 3, rather than in between Wandavision and this.

Overall, compared to phase 1, phase 4 feels more disjointed. Phase 1 movie were clearly more self-contained, yet they still manage to feel like they were heading toward some common destination, thanks to the Fury/SHIELD cameos and shorts. I don't get the same vibe for phase 4 yet.

 

[Blue]

For me, I need to include the D+ series as well because I think they are an important part of the tapestry that is getting woven.

I feel this is a bit like Phase I. I think we are all closest and most used to to Phase II -> Phase III with all of the interconnections and story building, and now we are stepping back to some stand-alones and new characters and plots. About half of what is getting put before us are introduction of "Not-Avengers", and the other half about "post-Avengers: where are they now".

Black Widow was ... weak. Especially the third Act. I see what they wanted to do. The stakes of all of those widows worldwide. They haven't sold it. They need more that Pugh to sell it, though she did an excellent job. David Harbor did a good job too with what he was given. It was a good vehicle to pass the torch - but it shouldn't have been; it should have been made a decade earlier.

WandaVision was fantastic, and a required bridge from Endgame to MoM. But it stands on it's own. That said, it you didn't like the framing it could be a real turn-off.

Eternals was a bit handicapped by the really long span they have been hear and not a single bit of foreshadowing elsewhere in Phases I-III. That will likely be a recurring issue when mutants and such are introduced, and already was with Inhumans.

Loki was very entertaining, but they missed the core aspect of him being a trickster - even with at the end trying to be worthy of trust, getting up to that point need to be full of effortlessly clever tricks and pranks, some "just because" and some filled with devilish cunning and long set-ups.

Spidey: Far from Home was quite good. I think that a little more time so we were in the "multiverse" mood and then the fake-out would have been even better.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier was more traditional MCU, well done, spending some effort on racism, introducing new players, and advancing the post-Avengers state of the MCU.

Shang-Chi was very enjoyable, Had some easter eggs and a post credits tie-in, but otherwise was just introducing. I echo the common complaint about too much big-CGI fight at end.

Hawkeye I greatly enjoyed. It was in some ways more standard Marvel-ly, like F&WS, but it also had a heck of a lot of heart in it. And humor that wasn't all snark. It was not a fantastic piece of television - but it was a very watchable piece of television that made me craving more after ever episode. It was the comfort food done right.

Moonknight was interesting to me. My wife didn't like it as much, and I generally just adored Oscar Isaac. Not sure how Marvel-ly it was.

Spidey: No Way Home ... I never saw the Andrew Garfield ones, the twist of the three Spideys was ruined by the internet, and frankly Spider-man: Into the Spider-verse already existed. Between those this had an uphill climb for me. It succeeded, I actually really liked it. But It was a battle. Doc Ock and Green Goblin were the two that pushed it into greatness for me. OMG Willem DeFoe.

Doc Strange II: Stranger Things was smaller then I expected. Smaller? The stakes weren't on the scale of some of the others. The deaths were plentiful and outdid the stakes. I liked seeing all the corrupt Docs, and the Illuminati (also ruined by the internet). But it felt like they spent big capital - like Wanda - on a movie that wasn't all that big in meaning, just in distance traveled. Still 7/10, but hey.

Ms. Marvel we are enjoying a lot. Lots of "Janus" -- time both in and out of the mask leading to who am I and who do I want to be. Spidey is a classic for that, and here it's shown well. It's the least time spent "doing heroics" of any of the shows about heroes, but I'm more than okay with that.

 

[Blue]

Just realized I haven't seen any of these except the first spider man. Nobody is really telling me to either.

Go stream Shang-Chi.

Hmm, I am telling you to. But nobody is telling you to. I must be nobody! (*Dons Odysseus cosplay.)

 

[Stalker0]

The fact is a lot of the original movies 10 years ago were mid tier too (Thor, Ironman 2 and 3, Hulk)

I would say the major difference between then and now is the bar has been raised. We now how high quality marvel movies can look like, Marvel has figured out the formula, so to me it becomes pretty obvious when they are going big versus phoning it in.

Movies
1) Black Widow: Terrible. Super generic, nothing interesting happens, terrible send off for ScarJo.
2) Shang-Chi: To me probably the best of the movies so far, though still doesn't compare to phase 2/3 movies. But its quite a solid plot, and actual interesting villain, and a well put together origin story.
3) Far from Home: Solid enough, decent action, decent plot, decent heart.
4) Eternals: I appreciated the attempt at a more epic and dramatic movie, but it just didn't really land.
5) No way Home: On first watch, its probably the best of the movies so far. Fun, intense, cool cameos. If you give it a reexamine though, the plot is REALLY thin (downright bonkers), and frankly is an insult to Dr Strange. Also this Peter Parker has never had issues with his morals, yet suddenly he needs the "Great Power/Great Responsibility" speech from Aunt May....nah doesn't really fit.
6) MoM: Just mediocre, would like to have seen better for Wanda.

Tv Shows:
1) Wandavision: Cool, interesting, fresh.
2) F/WS: About as generic and inoffensive as you can get.
3) Loki: Its pretty terrible ultimately. Its weirdly the "most important" thing plotwise going on, as in everything else is secondary to its plot. I'm not a fan of infinitity stones in the drawer....wow, way to make every event that we have seen so far become absolutely meaningless. And the Loki we see on screen is not our Loki.
4) Moon Knight: Really good, may be my favorite.
5) Hawkeye: Surpringingly solid.
6) Ms Marvel: I'm really enjoying it so far, we will see how it finishes.


Ultimately the problem with Phase 4 is, it doesn't have the fresh magic of the Phase I movies (the Wow fact of seeing superheroes on screen and making it look good), and doesn't yet have an Avengeresque movie that gives us the awe of the combined cinematic universe. I really thought MoM was going to be that movie....and it really fell flat in that department.

At the end of the day, we know that the superhero genre is going to get played out, just as every genre in movie history has, from westerns to alien movies, to zombies, etc. Its inevitable, and the question is....when its going to happen to marvel. Right now, I feel like we are getting there with Phase 4.

 

[Beleriphon]

If we're counting the Disney+ exclusives then Loki was fantastic. I'm looking forward to Love and Thunder.

Of the movies only, Shang-Chi was awesome. I've never really read the comics but the movie was excellent. Now Way Home also outstanding. Will be renting Multiverse of Madness.

I have no interest in the other movies. And I've seen and enjoyed every other MCU movie until now, so there was just something about them that didn't grab me.

 

[payn]

Go stream Shang-Chi.

Hmm, I am telling you to. But nobody is telling you to. I must be nobody! (*Dons Odysseus cosplay.)

You are the first!

 

[RangerWickett]

You are the first!

I'll be the second. Shang-Chi is my favorite film of phase 4. It has one of the upper tier villains of the MCU.

 

[Hex08]

I've enjoyed each of the post-Endgame movies with the Spider-Man ones being the best. Black Widow really good but could have been better, Taskmaster was wasted. All were fun though, like most Marvel movies. Eternals was the weakest (It should have been a Disney+ show, just too much going on to be a movie. It needed more time to tell its story). Doctor Strange catches a lot of flak but I liked that it leaned into Sam Rami's B-horror movie background and that it wrapped up WandaVision better than the TV show did. Between Eternals & Multiverse of Madness we saw Marvel stepping out of their comfort zone and I think we need more of that because most MCU movies have become very formulaic.

I think we put too much of a shine on the pre-Endgame movies, there were a lot of movies there and many were no better than the current crop. I love Thor but his first two movies weren't great, nor were Iron Man 2 & 3. Hulk has its problems, and in Captain America: The First Avenger he didn't fight any Nazi's during WW2. Civil War (Avengers 2.5) was mostly spectacle that wasted its opportunity to more thoroughly follow up on Winter Soldier (my favorite MCU movie). I'm a huge Captain Marvel fan and love Brie Larson in the role but that movie also could have been stronger. (I'm not crapping on any of them, I think even the worst MCU movie is entertaining).

The TV shows have been hit or miss as well. So far Ms. Marvel has been really good. Hawkeye was also pretty good. WandaVision was great until the last episode where all of the psychological drama was wrapped up with a superhero fight, yawn. Who were the bad guys in Falcon & The Winter Soldier and why should I have any empathy for them? Drop them and the show was pretty good. Loki was a lot of fun until the exposition heavy finale. Moon Knight (one of my favorite Marvel Heroes) was really good, but I felt robbed by them skipping out on some of the later fight scenes, what started out as a cool storytelling tool was annoying at the end; and Mr. Knight was a wasted character. What If? was tons of fun.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I've liked pretty much everything; I thought Eternals was the weakest of the bunch, but was still watchable.

 

[Stalker0]

I think we put too much of a shine on the pre-Endgame movies, there were a lot of movies there and many were no better than the current crop. I love Thor but his first two movies weren't great, nor were Iron Man 2 & 3. Hulk has its problems, and in Captain America: The First Avenger he didn't fight any Nazi's during WW2. Civil War (Avengers 2.5) was mostly spectacle that wasted its opportunity to more thoroughly follow up on Winter Soldier (my favorite MCU movie). I'm a huge Captain Marvel fan and love Brie Larson in the role but that movie also could have been stronger. (I'm not crapping on any of them, I think even the worst MCU movie is entertaining).

I think it comes down to:

• Burnout. There have been a lot of marvel out there, and its easy to get oversaturated compared to the Phase 2 days.
• Higher expectations: Just as we expect better effects in our modern movies, now that we have seen the best of marvel, the bar has been raised. We want movies that keep pushing the bar, not fall underneath it.