D&D 5E what is it about 2nd ed that we miss?

[RotGrub]

How moderately have you been wounded that you can say that with confidence? Wherever you want to draw the impairing line, you can't cross it if the victim has hps left after inflicting the damage.

Why not? What do remaining HPs have to do with it?

If you want to say that taking arrows through major joints and getting your chest slashed open isn't 'impairing' fine. But, then, there'd be no problem soldiering on after a Second Wind in those cases, either.

No, there is a difference between soldiering on and regaining hit points. If you want to soldier on then do it without those hit points. You put yourself at risk for the next encounter if you don't heal up. Second wind heals you up without magic.

So, on the one hand, you're trying to limit the discussion to 0 hps = death, because death's door is optional, on the other, you're invoking stuff from much later books.

No I wasn't trying to limit the discussion. You are the one that made the claim that the only real hit is the one that puts you at 0 or below. I just wanted to remind you that by default 2e games are not played that way. You then tried to claim that I needed to apply a penalty and I pointed out that 2e had a ton of different rules for them, not just in early and later source books ,but also in magical items, monsters, spells, and equipment.

It doesn't change anything. You step on a caltrop, take a little damage & a penalty. You get hit for much more damage: no penalty.

Yeah that's fine. A little damage from a Caltrop is targeted damage to a particular body part, which explains the penalty.

They do if you set the bar for realism (or whatever it is you're getting at with your "I can't narrate wounds how I want because HD" complaint) high enough. Which you do, for 5e, but not for 2e.

No I do it for both, I'm just forced to limit the narration much more in 5e.

As an AD&D fan, I also have to object to the theft of the term Hit Dice in 5e.

"HIT DICE controls the number of hit points damage a creature can withstand before being killed. Unless otherwise stated, Hit Dice are 8-sided (1-8 hit points). The Hit Dice are rolled and the numbers shown are added to determine the monster's hit points. Some monsters have a hit point spread instead of Hit Dice, and some have additional points added to their Hit Dice. Thus, a creature with 4+4 Hit Dice has 4d8+4 hit points (8-36 total). Note that creatures with +3 or more hit points are considered the next higher Hit Die for purposes of attack rolls and saving throws."

What is the evil leasing?

lol, maybe it has something to do with the auto-correct feature.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why not? What do remaining HPs have to do with it?

Because 2e only models wound severity from hp loss at 0 hps.

No I wasn't trying to limit the discussion.

The 0 HP threshold is dead in 2e unless you are using the optional rule in the DMG.

As an AD&D fan, I also have to object to the theft of the term Hit Dice in 5e.

Lol.

Yeah that's fine. A little damage from a Caltrop is targeted damage to a particular body part, which explains the penalty.

That is, the hp damage and the penalty are separate.

No, there is a difference between soldiering on and regaining hit points.

What's the practical difference between being able to act entirely unimpeded by a wound and not having the wound?

No I do it for both, I'm just forced to limit the narration much more in 5e.

You're not forced. Heck, you're not even encouraged.
You choose to limit yourself by applying a different standard to each edition. Cut 5e the same slack you do 2e, and you'll be fine.

Hit points are a game mechanic that stand between your character and death. Many things can degrade that buffer, some of them, like damage from illusions or mental attacks, not necessarily causing any physical damage in the process. Many things can contribute to having such a large buffer between you and the 'Reaper: size, stamina, skill, "sixth sense," luck, divine grace, etc...

If you can lose a lot of hps to an illusion or psychic attack, but still 'bind your wounds' or have a "wound" magically erased afterwards to get back hps that didn't involve wounds, at all, clearly, the factors that restore hps don't have to map to the ones that degrade them. It could go the other way, too: you could take whatever degree of physical wound damage the system implies (nothing serious enough to impair you if you haven't been dropped), and still come up with enough stamina/luck/whatever to make up for that loss, restoring the corresponding hps.

If what you want is the greatest possible flexibility in narrating hp loss and recovery that rationale would work pretty darn well.

 

[Maxperson]

Deep wounds and serious burns are debilitating and can be life-threatening. Hit point damage down to one hp in 2e is neither of those things.

The bolded part is key. If it turns out that the PC gets reduced to 0 or lower, they were life threatening. If the PC doesn't get reduced to 0 or lower, the deep wounds and serious burns weren't.

Of course, and those are magical. So, without magic, you can't inflict a bleeding wound or lop off a limb. Bizarre, but that's magic in D&D, it's always gotten more toys.

Not quite. You can in fact inflict a bleeding wound. It just won't bleed hit point loss.

I also prefer to describe wounds as being worse and worse as the PC get closer to 0, and for healing magic to close said wounds.

 

[Maxperson]

If you're describing hp damage in 2e as wounds that would impair the wounded PC (and the loss of mobility in your shoulder from an arrow wound would likely do so), you're stepping outside of the what the mechanics strictly imply/model. Which is fine. Just be willing to do so for 5e as well as for 2e.

Heroes fight through things that would incapacitate you or I. I don't see an issue with the arrow wound.

 

[Wuzzard]

I always have the arrows stick out of the PC's foreheads. Right between the eyes. Use an action to remove it or it just stays there!

 

[Water Bob]

I loved the AD&D 2E system. I've played that version more than any other, but that was all back in the day. We played an adventure about 5 years ago using 2E, but since then, we've been playing a version of 3E (which I quite like as well).

2E had Rate of Fire. So, throwing darts meant something. A person could throw 3 in a combat round, each doing 1-3 points of damage on a hit. 3-9 damage stacks up well against a longsword that does 1-8.

Bows had ROF 2. New types of arrows were introduced (like doing more damage but having less range). And, bows meant for certain STR was standard.

2E had armor adjustments for weapons, so different weapons did better or worse damage against specific types of armor. A longsword may do more damage than a mace, but the mace will hit more often against a certain type of common armor.

2E had speed factors, which generally made slower characters with bigger, more unwieldy weapons, go later in the round, allowing faster characters with quicker, more easy to use weapons, to go earlier in the round.

Dragons became bad-asses in 2E, with tail swipes and wing buffets in addition to the dragon's normal number of attacks, spells, and breath weapon.

2E first promoted the idea of different levels for humanoids. Not all Orcs were the same level.

2E also expanded weapon proficiency slots for special fighter attacks.

2E used and expanded upon the late 1E idea of using stats to roll skills. Non-weapon proficiency slots.



There's lots to applaud about the 2E game system.

 

[Shasarak]

Because 2e only models wound severity from hp loss at 0 hps.Lol.That is, the hp damage and the penalty are separate. What's the practical difference between being able to act entirely unimpeded by a wound and not having the wound?

2e Combat and tactics introduced 'wounds' with Critical hits. I thought it was a terrible system for DnD.

 

[Cristian Andreu]

I always miss the magical pipe organ example from the early pages of the 2e DMG. In general, the text in those books always felt the most flavourful of the various editions to me.

I also miss the page texture and smell. I'm not sure how it was on other printings (I've got the second Spanish printing), but there is something about that paper that I love. Then again, they say smell is the closes route to memory, so perhaps that's what's triggering the nostalgia for me.

 

[Water Bob]

I also miss the page texture and smell. I'm not sure how it was on other printings (I've got the second Spanish printing), but there is something about that paper that I love. Then again, they say smell is the closes route to memory, so perhaps that's what's triggering the nostalgia for me.

I spoke to one of the old TSR guys, and he said that they used Dryad dust specially energized by a Succubus, mixed in with the pulp of the paper.

They took it out for later editions, kinda like when Coke took the cocaine out of their product.

 

[Cristian Andreu]

Ohh, so that's why the drug-sniffing blink dogs at the airport keep chasing my backpack when I travel with my AD&D books. Before disappearing, of course, because they are bloody blink dogs.