D&D (2024) What would be the path between Wildshape Templates and Use an Beast statblock?

[WanderingMystic]

I am hoping for a curated list of available shapes and then rules to scale them up to higher CR as you level up. I don't want my only options at higher levels to be dinosaurs

 

[Gorck]

I definitely prefer the statblock method. I found the template so jarring. Like if you turn into a 'horse' you can't run with other horses. It felt so gamey and jarring, completely disconnected from the in-game setting. Which is a problem 5e is having more and more over time.

The health did need to be fixed though. It made moon druids basically unkillable.

The problem with the templates was that people found it too inflexible and pointed out the flaws with it. But WotC decided to revert back to the stat blocks in the ensuing Druid UA, rather than giving the templates another pass with people's suggested changes. Then, if it still didn't score well, they could have reverted back to the stat blocks. But they didn't even try a second iteration on it.

 

[Clint_L]

The problem with the templates was that people found it too inflexible and pointed out the flaws with it. But WotC decided to revert back to the stat blocks in the ensuing Druid UA, rather than giving the templates another pass with people's suggested changes. Then, if it still didn't score well, they could have reverted back to the stat blocks. But they didn't even try a second iteration on it.

See my post above. I think a lot of the feedback was that for a significant portion of respondents, templates are a nonstarter. They do not match the druid class fantasy for a whole lot of players. Iterating on them wasn't going to change that, it would just be poking the bear. So to speak.

 

[The Myopic Sniper]

I would make three to five (increasing with level) really good templates but allow a druid player to choose any form they want from the Monster Manual as well that meets the CR targets. Just make sure that the template is just slightly better or the same as they have access to in the MM except for in super situational corner cases.

Druid players who want to take an hour to peruse the Monster Manual in the middle of combat is more of a table issue than a game issue if good templates are available.

 

[Gorck]

See my post above. I think a lot of the feedback was that for a significant portion of respondents, templates are a nonstarter. They do not match the druid class fantasy for a whole lot of players. Iterating on them wasn't going to change that, it would just be poking the bear. So to speak.

Well, there was only one way to know for sure. But they took a "one and done" approach instead before giving up completely.

 

[Clint_L]

Well, there was only one way to know for sure. But they took a "one and done" approach instead before giving up completely.

Not really. To me, the implication is that the feedback was pretty strong and the conclusion obvious: the basic idea is a nonstarter. There's no need to keep iterating if the feedback from a significant chunk of players is "get that away from us; we don't want it in any way, shape, or form."

I also note that WotC has mentioned prioritizing feedback from folks who prefer playing a particular class as compared to folks who have less invested. In other words, the feedback they are getting from folks who have already self-identified in the survey as current moon druid players is probably being prioritized. Which makes sense, as those are the folks who will be most impacted by any changes.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Yeah, we all as players have a hard time accepting that some things we think are completely obvious and correct could possibly be disliked if not out-and-out shunned by most other players. It just doesn't seem possible... and thus we think "Oh, if only we could just present it better, all those other folks will finally realize the error of their ways." When in truth... we just might be the outlier that likes something no one else does and never will. Hard truths can be hard to swallow.

 

[Bill Zebub]

The “middle ground” is that the templates are basically monster stat blocks with generic names and you fluff it however you want.

 

[Parmandur]

Not really. To me, the implication is that the feedback was pretty strong and the conclusion obvious: the basic idea is a nonstarter. There's no need to keep iterating if the feedback from a significant chunk of players is "get that away from us; we don't want it in any way, shape, or form."

I also note that WotC has mentioned prioritizing feedback from folks who prefer playing a particular class as compared to folks who have less invested. In other words, the feedback they are getting from folks who have already self-identified in the survey as current moon druid players is probably being prioritized. Which makes sense, as those are the folks who will be most impacted by any changes.

What Crawford said is that about 40% of users really want templates, about 60% really them, and rhe next approach will try to please both groups.

 

[Clint_L]

What Crawford said is that about 40% of users really want templates, about 60% really them, and rhe next approach will try to please both groups.

I doubt that is possible. Which means we are likely to more or less default to the status quo.