. . . while you're at it. . . Fix heavy armor!

[Geron Raveneye]

You know that different types of armor are in the game so people who want to, for example, play in the early Crusades, or in the times of Karl the Great, have a range of armors available from which to tailor the choices of armor in that specific setting, right? One of the strengths of D&D is still that you can ditch most of the high-magic stuff along with the too-fantastical monsters, and simply play in some pseudo-medieval setting where 5th level fighters slay beastmen, unbelievers and rescue fair damsels from dragons, and never see anything better than a full chain mail as armor.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I'm not going to dispute anyone's personal experiences, but mine differ. I've done hikes with an extra 25 lbs and without, and I certainly notice the difference.

It makes a difference, it just doesn't reduce my walking speed by 33%.

If I had to describe the effect of heavy weight using D&D terms, I would say it reduces my sprint speed from 4x normal to 3x normal, but that my walking pace remains the same.

You know that different types of armor are in the game so people who want to, for example, play in the early Crusades, or in the times of Karl the Great, have a range of armors available from which to tailor the choices of armor in that specific setting, right? One of the strengths of D&D is still that you can ditch most of the high-magic stuff along with the too-fantastical monsters, and simply play in some pseudo-medieval setting where 5th level fighters slay beastmen, unbelievers and rescue fair damsels from dragons, and never see anything better than a full chain mail as armor.

Yeah; this is a point that bears a little development.

D&D has a lot of weapons and armor from different periods and cultures. It's nice they have this choice, because the rules are there to support a Viking campaign or a pre-Roman Saxony campaign. But that doesn't mean the armor from those periods should be viewed as "just a different choice" or a "stylistic" choice, equal to choosing heavy plate armor. Heavy plate armor was developed because it's just better than what came before it. If you want to play in campaign where everyone thinks chainmail is the best armor, you just need to say that "plate armor doesn't exist; no one knows how to make it." That's a stylistic choice.

But having plate armor and chainmail in the same campaign, and expecting anyone who can afford plate to stick with chain, is not realistic or historically accurate.

By the way, a big thank you to ArmoredSaint for his contributions to this thread. Without him we'd just be another bunch of RPG'ers making (educated?) guesses.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

It makes a difference, it just doesn't reduce my walking speed by 33%.

If I had to describe the effect of heavy weight using D&D terms, I would say it reduces my sprint speed from 4x normal to 3x normal, but that my walking pace remains the same.

Well...trad backpackers (40 to 60 lbs) tend to have, on average, 10 mile +/- days. Ultralighters (10 - 15 lbs on average) tend to have around 15 - 20 mile days. I'd say, yeah, encumberance does have a tendency to reduce walking speed.

 

[Victim]

But having plate armor and chainmail in the same campaign, and expecting anyone who can afford plate to stick with chain, is not realistic or historically accurate.

And what's realistic or historically accurate is obviously the primary consideration in game design.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Well...trad backpackers (40 to 60 lbs) tend to have, on average, 10 mile +/- days. Ultralighters (10 - 15 lbs on average) tend to have around 15 - 20 mile days. I'd say, yeah, encumberance does have a tendency to reduce walking speed.

I think heavy encumbrance does reduce your walking speed in the long term. However, a fit person can easily run but not really sprint in full plate- the BBC did a great documentary on it. People in full harness could do anything all the fighting and running and jumping without much problems, however they couldn't do it for long. The guys had a fight, and the super fit one in plate was a wreck after about 5 mins on nonstop combat with 3 other guys. Totally overheated and exhausted. No one travelled in plate they got dressed up for combat only.
I house rule no sprinting in heavy armour (sprinting is speed x5 in my games) and only 1 round plus con bonus of running before you cannot run (at x4) any more without a check for being fatigued. Combat for longer than 3 mins plus your con modifier also makes you fatigued. Overland travel is done at the normal 920' equiv) movement rate.
But to balance this someone in plate is pretty impossible to injure for anybody of lowish levels- I use Defence scores, wound points/hit points and armour as DR!

 

[Felon]

For the entire duration on 3.x, heavy armor has been the neglected stepchild of the combat system. Its always inadequate compared to the other kids, and gets no revisionist love!

Please. . . for the love of god(!!) make it worthwhile to wear heavy armor, even at high levels!!!! That means seriously ramping up the protective capabilities of heavy armor and/or decreasing the protective capabilities of other magic items.

Don't let heavy armor suffer in silence and shame any longer!

Heavy armor's great for heavy-armor types, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I guess it would help if you actually explained the basis of your gripe instead of just assuming everyone will go along with it.

It's not inadequate compared to other armor. It does what it should do: gives a big honking AC bonus in exchange for some reduced mobility.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I think heavy encumbrance does reduce your walking speed in the long term. However, a fit person can easily run but not really sprint in full plate- the BBC did a great documentary on it. People in full harness could do anything all the fighting and running and jumping without much problems, however they couldn't do it for long. The guys had a fight, and the super fit one in plate was a wreck after about 5 mins on nonstop combat with 3 other guys. Totally overheated and exhausted. No one travelled in plate they got dressed up for combat only.
I house rule no sprinting in heavy armour (sprinting is speed x5 in my games) and only 1 round plus con bonus of running before you cannot run (at x4) any more without a check for being fatigued. Combat for longer than 3 mins plus your con modifier also makes you fatigued. Overland travel is done at the normal 920' equiv) movement rate.
But to balance this someone in plate is pretty impossible to injure for anybody of lowish levels- I use Defence scores, wound points/hit points and armour as DR!

Ultra-fit people can do more, for sure.

What happened to the French contingent of knights in the Battle of Nicopolis illustrates the drawbacks of heavy armor in an extended combat scenario in regards to exhaustion (but illustrates heavy armor/knightly pwnage vs. more lightly armored opponents).

 

[Felon]

You know that different types of armor are in the game so people who want to, for example, play in the early Crusades, or in the times of Karl the Great, have a range of armors available from which to tailor the choices of armor in that specific setting, right?

Let's all thank Geron, the inventor of D&D, for stopping by to reveal a very well-kept secret about D&D's armor system.

No, D&D's armor system is not set up so folks can play in different historical periods. D&D's focus is not on historical settings. This is pretty handily stated in the campaign section of the DMG.

One of the strengths of D&D is still that you can ditch most of the high-magic stuff along with the too-fantastical monsters, and simply play in some pseudo-medieval setting where 5th level fighters slay beastmen, unbelievers and rescue fair damsels from dragons, and never see anything better than a full chain mail as armor.

You can certainly pare away options and run a campaign as "D&D minus" or "D&D lite", but that's not a "strength" of D&D, it's just a DM trying to whittle away at a square peg until it fits in a round hole. It's certainly not something the designers intentionally designed the game to allow you to do--D&D is not some modular metasystem. There's definitely an implied setting, and there lots of comments from guys like Monte Cook about how low-magicking the game is not recommended, and often is a bad approach.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yeah if you wanna play low magic buy Iron Heroes, it is awesome!

 

[Felon]

When it comes to plate mail, a lot of folks tend to want to make generalizations about how cumbersome it is (or isn't). They get it into their heads that if they can cite a legitimate example of a guy needing a winch to mount his horse, then that provides some definitive evidence about all plate armor throughout time. The same goes for those accounts of knights performing cartwheels in their armor.

It might help to bear in mind that all plate mail is not designed the same. Not every suit of armor weighed 50 lbs. It's quite possible some knights did have plate so thick and heavy (and perhaps poorly-constructed) that they needed assistance mounting a horse, while others had a lighter, well-balanced suit that allowed for excellent mobility.