Why Knock Someone Prone Anymore?

[Alane]

Can't they still Charge, though? Standard action, move your full speed and attack with a bonus?

No. Per page 287, a charge must include at least two squares of movement and must charge directly to the nearest square from which you can attack the enemy. In other words, the old "charging past the enemy" maneuver is no longer legal.

In the case of our prone enemy, there is only one empty square between you and him after you shift away, so he doesn't have enough room to charge at you.

The smartest move for the prone enemy is probably to stand (move action), draw a throwing knife (minor action), and throw it at you (standard action).

- Alane -

 

[FireLance]

Can't they still Charge, though? Standard action, move your full speed and attack with a bonus?

Oddly enough, you can't because you have to move two squares in order to charge.

This rule oddity makes me want to introduce a "lunge" minor action that allows you to move (not shift) one square, and which you can only use if it is your only movement for the round.

 

[Alane]

This rule oddity makes me want to introduce a "lunge" minor action that allows you to move (not shift) one square, and which you can only use if it is your only movement for the round.

I don't think it's a "rule oddity", FireLance. It seems exactly right. The character who was knocked prone should be at a disadvantage in this situation.

Remember that he could also stand up, then use his standard action to ready a move or attack action. This accurately reflects the concept that the knocked-prone character is on the defensive in the round when he climbs back to his feet.

- Alane -

 

[hong]

Dear ENWorld,

What can I do with a prone person?

Yrs,
Hong (age >18)

 

[ValhallaGH]

Dear ENWorld,

What can I do with a prone person?

Yrs,
Hong (age >18)

This question evoked much laughter.

 

[NorthSaber]

No. Per page 287, a charge must include at least two squares of movement and must charge directly to the nearest square from which you can attack the enemy.

Riiiight, good catch.

Still, knocking someone prone seems like a raw deal. If I have understood correctly, you don't get your weapon proficiency bonus or anything like that to the standard "trip" (from DMG), and most of the attacks that trip the enemy in addition to damage are sub-par compared to other abilities of the same level.

I suppose if you are a part of a team that needs the bonus (or needs to slow down the enemy) it's ok, but the success chance is not that good even then... Half the time it's a wasted action anyway. (Although this seems to be true for most actions.)

 

[Alane]

Still, knocking someone prone seems like a raw deal. If I have understood correctly, you don't get your weapon proficiency bonus or anything like that to the standard "trip" (from DMG), and most of the attacks that trip the enemy in addition to damage are sub-par compared to other abilities of the same level.

Perhaps knock-prone powers will look more appealing if you think of them as debuffs. They give all your allies Combat Advantage (especially nice for the Rogues) and cost the enemy one move action. Plus they do some damage, too.

They are perfectly reasonable powers for the tank classes (Fighter and Paladin), who are supposed to protect the squishies by pulling aggro and controlling the enemy.

- Alane -

 

[jaer]

There is at least 1 cleric power that slides the person and knocks them prone. There are probably others for other classes as well.

There are also zone/walls powers that deal damage when you move through them or start your turn in one.

Perhaps this is just my interpretation of it, but setting up a Blade Barrier and knocking someone prone into it would force them to start there turn in the barrier, and then they would either need to stand up (second hit of the barrier) and move out or crawl out (half speed isn't it?) and then stands.

So it either really restricts their movement or hits them twice.

 

[FireLance]

I don't think it's a "rule oddity", FireLance. It seems exactly right. The character who was knocked prone should be at a disadvantage in this situation.

Remember that he could also stand up, then use his standard action to ready a move or attack action. This accurately reflects the concept that the knocked-prone character is on the defensive in the round when he climbs back to his feet.

The dissonance, at least for me, is that you can attack an opponent three squares away if you charge, but you can't attack an opponent two squares away. Somehow, moving a shorter distance makes it impossible for you to make a melee attack at the end of your movement?

Alternatively, I'd allow the character to charge, but he wouldn't get the attack bonus if he doesn't move two or more squares.

 

[vagabundo]

Dear ENWorld,

What can I do with a prone person?

Yrs,
Hong (age >18)

Dear Hong,

Once the person is prone use an action point, you then get to take (combat) advantage of that person. If you are rogue-ish you get some additional fun from your sneak attack.

And those feelings you are feeling are completely natural. It is all part of growing up.

Yours, in good health,

ENWORLD...