Will 3rd Party (now "4th" party) Companies Thrive like in 3.x OGL?

[Bacris]

How is this business as usual?

While I don't claim to speak for Joe, I think the point is that there won't be major 4E support, at least in the printed fashion, in early 2008 due to missing the GenCon timeframe, so the only option is to continue the 3.5 or non-d20 product lines.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I don't see how they'll beat the MM1 to print, as it's the book that contains gnomes and probably half-orcs as well.

But what it doesn't include are the racial feats and levels.

 

[The Little Raven]

But what it doesn't include are the racial feats and levels.

For some monsters, such as the gnome, it will. A "Monsters as Races" appendix will be in the book with a number of monsters with racial feats and levels.

 

[glass]

Can someone come up with the missing races and classes book? Yes, but it'll be invalidated by WotC's in a year or two

What difference does it make what happens in a year or two? That's like saying don't take an umbrella out today because it'll be summer in six months!


glass.

 

[GMSkarka]

From what I understand from Clark Peterson and Erik Mona, they don't need the full SRD, they just need the current ruleset.

Well, speaking plainly -- none of us have seen that yet, either. And to be able to get print releases ready in time for anything resembling a launch-concurrent or GenCon-debut release, the deadline is fast approaching.


This, more than anything else, is the biggest factor to consider in the success of any 4e support plans. If Wizards sits on the rules for much longer, there's not going to be a wide array of support available.

 

[catsclaw227]

Well, speaking plainly -- none of us have seen that yet, either. And to be able to get print releases ready in time for anything resembling a launch-concurrent or GenCon-debut release, the deadline is fast approaching.

This, more than anything else, is the biggest factor to consider in the success of any 4e support plans. If Wizards sits on the rules for much longer, there's not going to be a wide array of support available.

Yes, I understand this. This is why I really hope that the qualified RPG companies get the ruleset soon. Now, what constitutes "qualified" is beyond me.

EDIT: I did not quote "qualified" from anyone, I am simply assuming that WOTC won't give out the ruleset to just anyone that claims to be an RPG company.

 

[JoeGKushner]

From what I understand from Clark Peterson and Erik Mona, they don't need the full SRD, they just need the current ruleset. If I recall correctly, the 3.0 SRD didn't come out until after the launch of the PH.

You are correct. However there was a 'private' list with a gentleman's agreement that was available to the publishers. You'll also note that many of those same publishers are in much different positions today than they were when 3.0 first came out. For instance, the book trade. Not a big consideration back in the day but seems vital for several of the companies in today's world.

How is this business as usual?

I mean that if a d20 publisher can't get some value out of the d20 license since there is no more d20 easy to recognize brand, that for many of them, it may be just as profitible to stick with their in-house systems (M&M, Runequest, True 20, Conan, etc...) than try to get a OGL/d20 brand of their own together.

 

[Hussar]

My 2 cp for whatever that's worth.

The early 3rd party products for 3e had some gems but contained a huge number of stinkers. Absolute crap that got onto shelves that had no business being there. And that peed in the pool for everyone else. Stores won't stock new books from untried companies because they got burned so badly the last time around.

And, I think WOTC is just going to avoid the whole mess completely this time because they don't need the attention that all those 3rd party products garnered the last time around either. D&D was dying when 3e came out. By allowing people to put out as many D&D books as they could, even if most were crap, they got the name out there as fast as possible and it basically became free advertising. You had all these new titles for this new game, which WOTC couldn't possibly publish in the same amount of time.

This time around though, D&D is pretty healthy by all accounts. They don't need to glut the shelves with 4e products. D&D is stocked in B&M shops from the little guys all the way up to the box stores. Amazon is a heck of a lot more pervasive in 2008 than it was in 1999.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a business standpoint to give all these other companies a leg up this time around.

 

[Fathead]

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a business standpoint to give all these other companies a leg up this time around.

Actually, that would make for an interesting debate. Many of the 3rd party publishers that exist today have a strong following. By withholding the ruleset (and keeping them from publishing at their release date), WOTC could be generating some ill will and negative PR.

As for the glut of bad products when 3E was released...I don't believe that is likely this time. When 3E was released, part of the problem was that none of these companies were proven. With 4E, my understanding was that they planned to give the ruleset to proven 3rd party publishers ahead of time. Companies like Goodman Games, Necromancer, and Paizo tend to generate quality products.

 

[catsclaw227]

With 4E, my understanding was that they planned to give the ruleset to proven 3rd party publishers ahead of time. Companies like Goodman Games, Necromancer, and Paizo tend to generate quality products.

I think you can add a few others as well. Paradigm, Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight Games (though their focus has been boardgames) and even smaller PDF publishers like Phil Reed's Ronin Arts, EN Publishing, and Expeditious Retreat Press.

Even with the poor editing, Mongoose put out a lot of good material, as does Troll Lord, but I think they might stay out of 4e and stick with Runequest and C&C/Lejendary Adventure respectively.

A couple of the good ones had to die on the vine because of the poor early d20 glut, like Mystic Eye games, Monkeygod and Bastion Press.

Not to mention the good ones that are out of d20, like Atlas, AEG and of course, Malhavoc.