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WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

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"At some point" you leave a voice mail or send an email. You don't go "whelp, he didn't pick up, time to call in the goon squad."
They are under no requirement to do so, just like he was under no requirement to open the door and speak to them. Sometimes people make choices that were not the best. It happens. People keep acting as if it wasn't some person at WoTC who had to make these decisions. They are bound to make mistakes, but because it is WoTC, they are vilified as if their sole intent was to traumatize Cannon's wife, emasculate Cannon, and insult his cat.

At the end of the day, Cannon is getting the correct product he paid for. He isn't in jail. His YouTube channel has increased in viewers and subscribers. His wife is fine.
 

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CommodoreKong

Explorer
That is an absurd statement. Changing hands is not some magical moment where original property rights are erased. What, you think if I misplace my phone, your buddy picks it up and then hands it to you, you are now the legal owner of the phone? If I come back and say, hey, that's my phone, you can tell me to go suck eggs? You don't believe that.

Edit: I'm out. It is clear that we see property rights completely differently.

If this set was legitimately purchased and was just accidentally sold early (which seems like a possibility given the name of this set being similar to other sets) then WotC has 0 property rights to the cards. There is no law that says I can't purchase or own something before street date. There's going to be an issue between the distbutor and WotC who have a contract in place that likely specifies what happens if they sell early but that an issue between those two groups.

I could see WotC wanting the boxes or pack wrapping since they apparently have serial numbers but it's no longer their property. Sure they could ask for that or buy them but it's not their property.

Do they believe it's stolen? You need to get law enforcement is involved. Not get rent a cops involved.

If you're not sure? Well still get law enforcement involved if he's not willing to give them the wrappers. Not sending rent a cops to harass someone and steal their property.

How do you properly handle this? Well actually leave a voicemail with the guy. See if he's willing to give them the wrappers and boxes. Find out exactly what happened.

If this Youtuber has signed no NDA with Wizards why is it wrong for him to leak the cards? There's probably tens of thousands of MtG unboxing videos on YouTube that WotC loves since it's free promotion for them.

The fact is the cards are leaked. The cat is out of the bag. There's no take backs. You have to make a decision on how to handle it and sending thugs isn't the way that it should be handled. It was 100% overreach by WotC.

More than anything this seems like power. WotC no doubt had their perfect little marketing plan in place and this person disrupted that.
This seems the same as The OGL debacle. Sure Wizards wanted some royalties but that seemed to be secondary to having the power over who could publish D&D content. Thank goodness that was stopped dead in it's tracks (likely by a combination of Beyond sub cancelations and Paramount telling them to fix it before the movie marketing got into high gear).
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
They are under no requirement to do so, just like he was under no requirement to open the door and speak to them. Sometimes people make choices that were not the best. It happens. People keep acting as if it wasn't some person at WoTC who had to make these decisions. They are bound to make mistakes, but because it is WoTC, they are vilified as if their sole intent was to traumatize Cannon's wife, emasculate Cannon, and insult his cat.
So wait, it was his fault because he opened his door?

But what was WotC's intent when it came to sending Pinkertons instead of a lawyer? I mean, you don't send private security for just a friendly chat.

At the end of the day, Cannon is getting the correct product he paid for. He isn't in jail. His YouTube channel has increased in viewers and subscribers. His wife is fine.
Since he didn't steal the cards, "he isn't in jail" should be the norm, not the bonus.
 

So wait, it was his fault because he opened his door?
What exactly was his fault? I'm not sure what you are referring to.
But what was WotC's intent when it came to sending Pinkertons instead of a lawyer?
Well, I think this has already been addressed here by several people. It's not always safe to go to random people's homes. Plus, I assume most lawyers aren't going to want to do this type of work, at least not cheaply. It's probably more cost effective to send a PI agency to do this type of work. An quite honestly, the idea that a lawyer would be less intimidating is wrong. Lawyers can be just as intimidating if not more than some PI employee. For one, the lawyer is more knowledgeable of the laws. Considering that it wasn't until after Cannon explained how he received the cards the story of how he got hem was made known to the PIs and WoTC, a Lawyer wouldn't have known before hand either. A lawyer could have made the same threats in a more lawyery way. He could have probably cited additional laws and consequences. And if we are talking about physical intimidation, there is nothing to say that a lawyer can't be physically intimidating. I've met a few that have decided their hobby is powerlifting or training MMA and look the part. They can be just as physically intimidating as any PI.
I mean, you don't send private security for just a friendly chat.
Says who? Has every single interaction you've ever had with a private security guard been a bad one? I highly doubt it. It's even more doubtful that private security guards only have negative interactions with the public.
Since he didn't steal the cards, "he isn't in jail" should be the norm, not the bonus.
Yeah, he isn't in jail. No one is claiming its a bonus, it's just a fact. I'm pointing out that nothing actually happened to him. In fact, the only things that seem to have happened as a consequence appear to be positives. He got an increase in viewers and subscribers. He didn't face any negative consequences besides losing the cards he didn't pay for. He paid for a different set of cards and was given the incorrect ones, which WoTC is going to provide him with anyway. He isn't losing money. If anything, the fame he is getting from this and the increase in viewers and subscribers may in fact increase his earnings from his YouTube channel. This guy is doing great. What did Pinkerton do? They made him famous. Good for him.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
What exactly was his fault? I'm not sure what you are referring to.
"just like he was under no requirement to open the door and speak to them. Sometimes people make choices that were not the best."

Certainly sounds like you were saying that he invited the trouble because he opened the door.

Well, I think this has already been addressed here by several people. It's not always safe to go to random people's homes.
If they thought he was potentially dangerous, then why didn't they just pay for an express mail to be delivered?

Or, you know, emailed him. Or left a message on his phone. Neither of which they did.

They literally could have avoided all of this bad press if they had just left a voicemail.

Plus, I assume most lawyers aren't going to want to do this type of work, at least not cheaply.
You think Hasbro doesn't have their own lawyers on call for just these things?

It's probably more cost effective to send a PI agency to do this type of work. An quite honestly, the idea that a lawyer would be less intimidating is wrong. Lawyers can be just as intimidating if not more than some PI employee. For one, the lawyer is more knowledgeable of the laws. Considering that it wasn't until after Cannon explained how he received the cards the story of how he got hem was made known to the PIs and WoTC, a Lawyer wouldn't have known before hand either. A lawyer could have made the same threats in a more lawyery way. He could have probably cited additional laws and consequences. And if we are talking about physical intimidation, there is nothing to say that a lawyer can't be physically intimidating. I've met a few that have decided their hobby is powerlifting or training MMA and look the part. They can be just as physically intimidating as any PI.
"Can be." But we'll never know, will we, because they didn't bother to send a lawyer--or call the police, if they thought the cards were stolen. I know people like to say "the police would be useless," but would they really be useless when a multi-billion dollar company calls?

Says who? Has every single interaction you've ever had with a private security guard been a bad one? I highly doubt it. It's even more doubtful that private security guards only have negative interactions with the public.
If some private security agent showed up at my door after interrogating my neighbors about me and making not-so-subtle hints about jail time and massive fines, I wouldn't assume it's to talk about the weather.

And that would be for any private security agent showed up, not just if it was one from an infamous company.

Yeah, he isn't in jail. No one is claiming its a bonus, it's just a fact. I'm pointing out that nothing actually happened to him. In fact, the only things that seem to have happened as a consequence appear to be positives. He got an increase in viewers and subscribers. He didn't face any negative consequences besides losing the cards he didn't pay for.
He paid for a different set of cards and was given the incorrect ones, which WoTC is going to provide him with anyway. He isn't losing money. If anything, the fame he is getting from this and the increase in viewers and subscribers may in fact increase his earnings from his YouTube channel. This guy is doing great. What did Pinkerton do? They made him famous. Good for him.
He paid for cards. It's not his fault he got sent the wrong ones. His property was taken. It doesn't matter if he was then given other cards in exchange. He didn't choose to exchange those cards.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Cannon would prefer to be famous for reasons other than "bullied by a major corporation."
 

"just like he was under no requirement to open the door and speak to them. Sometimes people make choices that were not the best."

Certainly sounds like you were saying that he invited the trouble because he opened the door.
Well, if that is appeared to be communicated, it was not my intention. What I meant was, some employee at WoTC made a choice to have Pinkerton employees go in. It may not have been the best choice to have Pinkerton employees go in, as some here have suggested. Maybe the WoTC employee could have chosen a better PI firm without the PR baggage that comes with Pinkerton. Maybe they could have chosen some other option. Maybe the Pinkerton employees could have chosen to communicate differently. Maybe Cannon could have chosen to return the cards since he knew they were not the ones he ordered. Maybe he could have chosen to keep them and not put up a video about the unreleased cards to his audience. Cannon could have chosen to not open the door. Cannon could have chosen to not speak to the Pinkerton employees. Lots of choices. It could be argued, and has been, that better choices could have been made. So, again, sometimes people make choices that were not the best. That goes for everyone involved.

Hope that cleared it up.
If they thought he was potentially dangerous, then why didn't they just pay for an express mail to be delivered?
To mail him what? A letter he probably would have ignored or not opened because he doesn't know who it is from? Even if he did open it, what would that have gotten them? Assuming WoTC is trying to get the cards back before the official release date for whatever reason, sending snail mail is just going to prolong the process.

Or, you know, emailed him. Or left a message on his phone. Neither of which they did.
Maybe he didn't have voicemail set up? It happens. I have plenty of clients who don't have their voicemails set up. Who knows why they didn't send him and email. Maybe they could have, but again, if they are looking to get things back as quickly as possible, email may have been deemed too slow.
They literally could have avoided all of this bad press if they had just left a voicemail.
Maybe. THat is definitely a possibility. Just as it's a possibility he could have avoided the whole situation if he'd returned the incorrect merchandise or not uploaded videos of him opening the packs knowing they were unreleased. Neither WoTC nor Cannon was under any obligation to take these choices, though. Why didn't they do it? Who knows. The people that made those choices are people. People make mistakes.
Just because it happens to be WoTC doesn't mean that it isn't people making the actual choices. Being part of WoTC doesn't make you some evil corporation. You just happen to be another human working at a job. Being part of Pinkerton doesn't automatically make you into a horrible person. I doubt the Pinkerton application asks if you enjoy hurting others and being evil on a daily basis. They don't ask you, if we send you to a house to retrieve some cards, are you willing to lie to the person and threaten them? Re you willing to escalate it to the point where we can get some much needed news coverage by cracking them in the skull?

You think Hasbro doesn't have their own lawyers on call for just these things?
Sure they have lawyers. I'm betting the pay them quite well. It doesn't make it any more cost effective to send out a lawyer. Nor does it make it any safer. I doubt they have lawyers who are hired to go out to people's homes to get merchandise. I doubt there are many companies that do. In fact, if you could find a company that has lawyers who go out and retrieve improperly distributed merchandise, I'd be surprised. Hell, I'll order you a pizza.
"Can be." But we'll never know, will we, because they didn't bother to send a lawyer--or call the police, if they thought the cards were stolen. I know people like to say "the police would be useless," but would they really be useless when a multi-billion dollar company calls?
Isn't the police just as intimidating, if not more so? Now we're talking about sending actual police officers who could actually arrest this guy. Hell, one of the supposed threats the Pinkerton agents made was calling the sheriff's office and having them come out and making Cannon show receipts for all his Magic cards. That was used to intimidate him. Imagine how intimidating he would find it if actual police officers showed up. And, Police in the U.S. don't have the best reputation, either. It's not as if they are always having pleasant interactions with the public.
If some private security agent showed up at my door after interrogating my neighbors about me and making not-so-subtle hints about jail time and massive fines, I wouldn't assume it's to talk about the weather.
Sure, in that instance you may have reason to feel that it isn't a friendly conversation. But that wasn't your original statement. you stated
But what was WotC's intent when it came to sending Pinkertons instead of a lawyer? I mean, you don't send private security for just a friendly chat.
You could send private security just for a friendly chat. That wasn't their reason in this instance, but that doesn't mean that private security can't be used for friendly chats. Now, I admit it would depend on what you want them to chat about. Hopefully something they are knowledgeable in. But the possibility still exists.
And that would be for any private security agent showed up, not just if it was one from an infamous company.
Have you had only bad encounters with private security? I'm honestly just curious.
He paid for cards. It's not his fault he got sent the wrong ones.
No one said it was his fault he was given the wrong merchandise. However, he knew it was the wrong merchandise and chose to make a YouTube video in what I assume was the hope in attracting viewers and subscribers. So don't play it off as if Cannon was completely innocent here. He knew what he was doing. He was hoping he would be fine. He found out otherwise.
His property was taken. It doesn't matter if he was then given other cards in exchange. He didn't choose to exchange those cards.
Sure he did. he chose to give up the cards. He spoke to the WoTC rep. He chose to accept the actual product he purchased. At no point has Cannon stated he declined to return the cards. He was actually very forthcoming and worked with WoTC to have the cards and packaging returned. Would the cops have been called if he chose not to return the cards? Who knows? Would the cops have actually shown up? No idea. I'd think they'd view it as a civil matter, at which point we'd be reading about how WoTC lawyers dragged a poor hapless Magic fan into court and had the court force him to return the cards and stick him with thousands of dollars in fines and legal fees.

Honestly, it just appears as if no matter what choices WoTC could have/should have/would have made, they would get bad PR for it.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Cannon would prefer to be famous for reasons other than "bullied by a major corporation."
I'm sure you are correct, but I don't think he minds it too much considering all the benefits he has derived from it. Before this, very few people knew who he was. There was no way news outlets were going to interview him and give him free publicity. It may not be the manner in which he wanted to get famous, but I'm willing to bet your left testicle that he is enjoying his 15-minutes.
 

Olrox17

Hero
I have some problems with the way the language and retelling of events has changed over time.

Originally, Mr. Cannon said they put their foot in the door to keep it from closing. Then Gizmodo tells us he said they "...'forced themselves' partially through the door...". Now it is just "forced their way in". Every time it becomes less specific, it sounds worse.

We are told that they mentioned possible legal repercussions. That becomes "making threats", again, making it more abstract, and inviting the audience to fill in the blanks. I understand why that happens - the more outraged we are, the more we engage with the people who are reporting. We reward the escalation with our attention.

But I am not a fan of the manipulation.
While these kind of events can be blown out of proportion as they are retold time and again, even the most charitable of the retellings is bad enough that I believe we should hold WotC accountable.

They made an half-assed effort to contact Mr. Cannon (no email, mail, or voicemail), they elected to send an infamous PI agency to his door, and those infamous PIs lived up to their name to some degree, preventing the house owners from closing the door on them and using language (threatening or legitimate, can't say for sure) which instilled fear into them. Ultimately, those PIs made off with goods that I have all reasons to believe were Mr. Cannon's rightful property.

I see no scenario where that's ok. If the cards were stolen, the police should have been involved, not PIs, and the thief shouldn't be receiving compensation.
If the cards were legitimately bought, then this behavior from WotC is morally way out of line and borderline illegal.
 


Olrox17

Hero
Is there a source for this?
This article is at the top of Google searches Magic 'Raid' Wasn't First Time WotC Hired Pinkertons [UPDATED]
"In an email exchange with io9, Cannon confirmed the statements he made on the video and added additional context, stating that “as soon as my wife answered the door they aggressively asked for me by my full name… announced themselves as the Pinkerton Agency (which I am very familiar with their reputation), and said they were there to recover ‘stolen goods’.” After his wife asked them to wait outside, Cannon says that they “forced themselves” at least partially through the door and prevented her from closing the door all the way."
 

This article is at the top of Google searches Magic 'Raid' Wasn't First Time WotC Hired Pinkertons [UPDATED]
"In an email exchange with io9, Cannon confirmed the statements he made on the video and added additional context, stating that “as soon as my wife answered the door they aggressively asked for me by my full name… announced themselves as the Pinkerton Agency (which I am very familiar with their reputation), and said they were there to recover ‘stolen goods’.” After his wife asked them to wait outside, Cannon says that they “forced themselves” at least partially through the door and prevented her from closing the door all the way.
"Wizards of the Coast says it “strongly refutes this depiction of events, which contradicts both the report from the investigation as well as the conversation between the individual and the Wizards of the Coast representative after the interaction in question.” The company also stated that “under no circumstances would we instruct any employee or contracted agency to intimidate an individual.”"

From the same article.

No one on this board has the full facts of this story. Can we back off the rhetoric that reinforces our own personal views please? Just look at the details of this event with neutrality, objectivity and logic.
 

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