Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)

[Tinner]

A qualified yes.

I'd allow this PC, but only so long as he belongs to a faith that doesn't preach against any of these behaviors.
None of his actions are "evil" or "unlawful". They aren't appropriate for what we think of as a "normal medieval paladin" but with the proper background on his faith, I'd allow it.
FYI the bit about the brothel - there's another interesting take on how an LG paladin could participate in such activities in the Book of Erotic Fantasy. Might be worth a look if you're playing that kind of PC.

 

[Imret]

I would, certainly. Other DM's might not, but for my own style, absolutely. There's nothing in his behaviour listed above that violates the code as written. If I may...

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all special class abilities if she ever willingly commits an act of evil. Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, etc.), help those who need help (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those that harm or threaten innocents.

So, under the assumption he's lawful good and his only sins are whoring, drinking, swearing, and cynicism. That's fine by me, and as written, it's fine by the code.

Realistically, even in the clean-scrubbed version of the middle ages most D&D games are set in, a woman of peasant background working in a brothel is probably doing better than she would be married to Tomas the miller. So, provided the brothel works less like a slave ring and more as a business where a woman can make a better wage, if she's willing, there's nothing evil about solicitation in and of itself. While chaste is typically applied as a requirement for paladins, it's not in the RAW; after all, the gods of good want humans to be happy. That's why they're good. I've always felt it was more on the context of "a serving paladin should not wed or produce heirs to distract himself from his duty", and that as a church restriction rather than an article of faith. So long as brothels are legal in the majority of civilized nations and not specifically opposed by the church, and he keeps paying (especially since the madam tries to insist he not pay).

Drinking. Nothing evil about it either, presuming his church doesn't believe that all alcohol is dangerous. As long as he's not getting falling-down, puking in the gutter, soiling himself drunk on a regular basis, no major transgression is occuring; and let me say I don't think "Had one too many ales" should ever cost a class their abilities, regardless of how many roleplaying restrictions they tried to balance mechanical advantages with.

Swearing? That's so minor it barely worth consideration, so long as he's not swearing oaths by the fiends of hell.

Now cynicism...repeat after me..."Lawful Good does not equal Lawful Stupid". He's very, very aware of how the life of a paladin ends; in screaming agony at the hands, claws, or other offensive appendages of some horrible spawn of evil, and he's not very happy about it. That seems fair; nobody wants to die screaming in agony. Your average paladin is played in such a way, IMXP, that he has no idea what's coming for him. He never considers doing something else with his life, he's committed to this path and firmly believes his faith will win the day. Now Cedric here, he's firmly committed to his duty as a paladin in spite of the inevitable outcome of this duty. He -knows-, inherently, that he's screwed, and his best chance is a decent afterlife. I'd say, if anything this is more noble. He's committed to fighting, and dying, for the cause...for no better reason than it SHOULD be fought for.

So, simple question - yes, I'd allow him in my campaign. Complex question - without house rules dictating greater restrictions on the paladin, there's nothing in the paladin class as written that forbids this particular concept.

 

[Doug McCrae]

"I am born to die a futile death fighting against evil that will never be defeated. Thus, I can kick back with a brew and a babe now and then."

Cheers. Well, nothing wrong with knocking back a few ales in moderation. But one night stands or promiscuity seem non-lawful, if not downright chaotic, to me. Drinking to excess and partying hard would also be chaotic IMO.

Why don't you make him a Unearthed Arcana Paladin of Freedom or a fighter/ranger aiming for the Complete Divine Holy Liberator PrC? Both are basically chaotic good paladins.

 

[bodhi]

Maybe Cedric and Gaulstaff are long lost brothers

See this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112179

I would say that your question is actually two (or maybe two and a half): 1) Does this character concept violate the RAW? 1a) Does this character violate the flavor or spirit of the paladin class? 2) Would you, as a DM, allow this character in your personal campaign?

For me, the answers are:
1) No, not strictly. The paladin's code (as laid out in the current SRD, at any rate) is not strictly defined. See 2.

1a) Not to me, but this character certainly isn't a pure, pristine warrior, ala Galahad. While certainly a powerful archetype for the paladin, IMHO it's not the only possible model.

2) I would allow this character in a campaign I might run, with a few caveats. Factors would include the tone and setting of the campaign (maybe there aren't any paladins at all in this campaign), and the other players (age, temperament, and sensitivities). Also, as always, this would require some discussion with the player beforehand. I wouldn't allow a player to just show up with this character any more than I'd allow "Can I play my half-drow thief/magic-user from the other game I play in?".

To go back to my point in 1) above, a DM is certainly free to strictly codify a paladin's code, which would make Sir Cedric inappropriate for the campaign. This puts it back into 2), I think.

 

[Buttercup]

It would depend on the campaign, and also on the Paladin's order. Certainly I think it's a mistake to assume that real world morality necessarily applies to a fantasy game. Perhaps this paladin serves a god(dess) who has a fertility aspect. Perhaps the deity is charmed by the human foibles of his chosen servant.

Honestly, I have more of a problem with his belief that his life's work is futile than with his drinking and wenching.

My players are all adults, though. If I had minors at my table, I'd ask the player to come up with something else.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I would probably allow this character, and he might hold on to his paladinhood for a while, actually. The caveat, though, for me, is that he has to have a clear code of conduct defined, and he has to follow it.

This character is clearly not following the code that the authors of PHB (any addition) had in mind, nor does it refer to the Charlemaigne we usually think of.

And that's fine. But. The code I'm envisioning wouldn't allow this PC to be blithely judgmental about petty things, particularly towards someone who needs his help, nor, it sounds like, should he be surprised that not everyone approves of his lifestyle.

As for how he speaks to people; Magnus in this case - just because he's a paladin doesn't mean he has to like everyone. Heck, I would probably have a similar reaction. Look at how Magnus first approches the situation: sneering at the man, and then asking for his help. Ugh, you disgust me.. please help us.

He doesn't have to like them, perhaps, but he does have to listen to their complaints and pleas, and he has to live by what he has said: "I live to serve."

 

[Buttercup]

But one night stands or promiscuity seem non-lawful, if not downright chaotic, to me.

Depends on the cultural mores, IMO. What if prostitution is sanctioned and licensed by the government? What if prostitutes are considered as some sort of priestess?

 

[Zappo]

I don't know. It depends on the player, campaign and context. I think such a paladin is feasible, but that the "lawful" part of his alignment is shaky. Not so much because of the drinking and womanizing, but because of his belief that his actions are ultimately worthless. I think that paladins should have a strong belief that what they do is important, even if only because their god says so. Fate, destiny, and all that.

 

[Darkness]

Very neat character. I would allow it. Like others before me, I'd suggest making him a paladin of freedom (CG instead of LG), though.

Paladin of Freedom Code of Conduct: A paladin of freedom must be of CG alignment and loses all class abilities if he ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin of freedom's code requires that he respect individual liberty, help those in need (provided they do not use the help for lawful or evil ends), and punish those who threaten or curtail personal liberty.

BTW, Paladins of Freedom are mechanically identical to Paladins of Honor (i.e., PHB paladins) except for one class skill and some spells on their spell list, but they get an Aura of Resolve (works against compulsions instead of fear) instead of an Aura of Courage.

 

[Doug McCrae]

What if prostitution is sanctioned and licensed by the government?

Still chaotic, I'd say.

What if prostitutes are considered as some sort of priestess?

Then that would be different. Especially for a religious warrior such as a paladin.