D&D (2024) Wow, 5.5e characters are STRONG!

[Maxperson]

I edited my last post. Maybe you want to read that too.

My solution was going to a different resting model: no long rest for a single night. That spread those encounters over many days. The fun came from the uncertainty, how many encounters could come before you have a chace to rest. And the uncertainty which ones prove to be deadly.

We found this more satisfying than just upping deadliness more and more in a way that only favours spellcasters.

We went to that resting model as well. It made more sense from a story standpoint not to have monsters always come in back to back to back to back to back to back to back waves in a single day.

 

[FrogReaver]

We went to that resting model as well. It made more sense from a story standpoint not to have monsters always come in back to back to back to back to back to back to back waves in a single day.

Not that it really needs said but that really depends on the story.

That’s 1 reason to dislike rest and attrition based model - because they aren’t adaptable to the story.

 

[Horwath]

Not that it really needs said but that really depends on the story.

That’s 1 reason to dislike rest and attrition based model - because they aren’t adaptable to the story.

I also hate "trash" mobs as they do not have much sense outside some random beast or dumb undead.

No one with more than half a brain(int 8+) will only attack the party if the think they can win.
Sure there is a chance of misscalculation, but with smarter opponents that chance is smaller.

again, there is no sense in making overpowered encounters and wiping the party, but TPK has to be a realistic possibility for every encounter if played wrong. Or VERY BAD luck.

in one campaign, we had to escape via teleporting after 3 out of 5 were dropped and 2 dragged the 3 downed allies into teleport.

 

[tetrasodium]

I also hate "trash" mobs as they do not have much sense outside some random beast or dumb undead.

No one with more than half a brain(int 8+) will only attack the party if the think they can win.
Sure there is a chance of misscalculation, but with smarter opponents that chance is smaller.

again, there is no sense in making overpowered encounters and wiping the party, but TPK has to be a realistic possibility for every encounter if played wrong. Or VERY BAD luck.

in one campaign, we had to escape via teleporting after 3 out of 5 were dropped and 2 dragged the 3 downed allies into teleport.

The design of 5e really forces the GM to pack those in as much as we all hate them though. Back with vancian prep and meaningful consequences to resource/hp attrition it was easy to justify a couple "trash" or trash adjacent encounters as guards unprepared mooks or whatever and have them impact the real meat and potatoes encounters both to deplete some resources so the bbeg doesn't just melt instantly as well as to potentially give players an opportunity to theorycraft proactive buff/debuffs and plan with consumables if surprised with "oh I think we might need pfe:typedeathward/etc" or whatever. Now that's pretty much covered by healing word and death saves for the later while the former is not even having the surface scratched until the gm really packs in the trash

 

[FrogReaver]

I’m curious what does a play test life cleric get at levels 1-3?

Regular life cleric gets -

• 2 spell slots, approx 4 spells to prepare
• An improvement to healing spells of 2+spells level for these levels that’s 3-4 extra healing per slot.
• Channel divinity option to heal 5*cleric level per short rest.
• A few extra always prepared spells

At level 1
That’s about 6 extra healing

At level 2
Potentially 39 extra healing

At level 3
Potentially 65 extra healing

*all assuming 2 short rests.

I’m curious how 5.5e compares

 

[Neonchameleon]

I also hate "trash" mobs as they do not have much sense outside some random beast or dumb undead.

No one with more than half a brain(int 8+) will only attack the party if the think they can win.
Sure there is a chance of misscalculation, but with smarter opponents that chance is smaller.

An event that happens once or twice per campaign when I'm running is a set of bandits or goblins seeing the PCs, setting an ambush, then deciding to nope out rather than attack. Normally the PCs let them.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I’m curious what does a play test life cleric get at levels 1-3?

Last seen in playtest 6. You only get your domain at level 3. Instead:

• Level 1: Divine Order. Either heavy armour plus martial weapons or an extra cantrip and a bonus to religion. Marginally stronger and a lot more flexible than the life cleric's heavy armour - but you don't have the extra spells known from the domain yet.
• Level 2: Channel Divinity: Turn Undead and Divine Spark. You get extra uses of Channel (you get two to start with and can have two at a time, recovering 1/short rest) - and Divine Spark (which everyone gets) is a single target heal or damage for d8+wis
• Level 3: Domain spells, Disciple of Life (the old healing boost), and Preserve Life which now lets you cast abjuration (including healing spells) with Channel Divinity.

I’m curious how 5.5e compares

Healing spells have been buffed for an extra die on both Cure Wounds and Healing Word. But I think the life cleric in specific has taken an overall nerf in terms of quantity of healing from level 3+ (at level 2 Divine Spark is almost as good when you start with an extra one per day) because their channel divinity no longer scales monstrously.

If you want numbers:

• Level 1: 9 extra healing (assuming two casts of the newly buffed Cure Wounds) or 5 extra (from two uses of Healing Word)
• Level 2: Two short rests means four uses of Divine Spark - for 30 extra healing - and then some more from Cure/Healing Word
• Level 3: 30 extra healing still from Divine Spark, five spell slots, 3 extra hp for each of the first level slots and 4 for the second for 20 extra potential hp - and then assuming all healing spells that's an extra 15-25hp.

The total package healing overall by a dedicated healer is probably higher at levels 1-3 in the new version, but Channel Divinity gives 15 extra hp per level going up in the old version and not in the new. If you don't count the buff to healing spells (or it gets reverted) the old life cleric is stronger, although the new is more flexible.

The main subclass change at higher levels is that Divine Strike is now in the base class and lets you choose between bonus weapon damage and bonus cantrip damage rather than being fixed by the subclass.

 

[wizard71]

Mathematically, they are not more effective. They are more exciting, that's the design priority: increasing satisfacrion.

I am not sure mathematically there is much difference but I noticed a big difference in playtest classes such as sorcerer and fighter. I loved the warlock with half caster and dislike that pact magic is back. Half caster warlock felt amazing

 

[FrogReaver]

Last seen in playtest 6. You only get your domain at level 3. Instead:

• Level 1: Divine Order. Either heavy armour plus martial weapons or an extra cantrip and a bonus to religion. Marginally stronger and a lot more flexible than the life cleric's heavy armour - but you don't have the extra spells known from the domain yet.
• Level 2: Channel Divinity: Turn Undead and Divine Spark. You get extra uses of Channel (you get two to start with and can have two at a time, recovering 1/short rest) - and Divine Spark (which everyone gets) is a single target heal or damage for d8+wis
• Level 3: Domain spells, Disciple of Life (the old healing boost), and Preserve Life which now lets you cast abjuration (including healing spells) with Channel Divinity.

Healing spells have been buffed for an extra die on both Cure Wounds and Healing Word. But I think the life cleric in specific has taken an overall nerf in terms of quantity of healing from level 3+ (at level 2 Divine Spark is almost as good when you start with an extra one per day) because their channel divinity no longer scales monstrously.

If you want numbers:

• Level 1: 9 extra healing (assuming two casts of the newly buffed Cure Wounds) or 5 extra (from two uses of Healing Word)
• Level 2: Two short rests means four uses of Divine Spark - for 30 extra healing - and then some more from Cure/Healing Word
• Level 3: 30 extra healing still from Divine Spark, five spell slots, 3 extra hp for each of the first level slots and 4 for the second for 20 extra potential hp - and then assuming all healing spells that's an extra 15-25hp.

The total package healing overall by a dedicated healer is probably higher at levels 1-3 in the new version, but Channel Divinity gives 15 extra hp per level going up in the old version and not in the new. If you don't count the buff to healing spells (or it gets reverted) the old life cleric is stronger, although the new is more flexible.

The main subclass change at higher levels is that Divine Strike is now in the base class and lets you choose between bonus weapon damage and bonus cantrip damage rather than being fixed by the subclass.

I assume that divine spark would be better replaced with cure wounds for more healing at level 3?

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Dwarves can grant themselves Tremorsense multiple times a day.

Tremorsense could be nice for peeking past doors/walls/to other floors of the building, but... it's a really subtle ability that is very prone to GM interpretation.

TREMORSENSE
A creature with Tremorsense can pinpoint the
location of creatures and moving objects within
a specific range, provided that the creature with
Tremorsense and anything it’s detecting are
both in contact with the same surface (such as
the ground, a wall, or a ceiling) or the same
liquid.
Tremorsense can’t detect creatures or objects
in the air, and Tremorsense doesn’t count as a
form of sight.

You know where creatures are, but you don't know what they are.
'hey guys, there's something moving behind this wall'
'what kind?'
'I dunno'
'gee, very useful, dwarf scout'
By rules text, you might not even be able to know if they're small or large, though logically you should feel the difference in tremors/pressure.

You can automatically tell where someone hiding is (yes, even if they're still), but you'd have a disadvantage to attack them regardless (does not count as a form of sight). Dwarves having this ability seems to have more of an impact against player parties ('oh no, they have a dwarf with them, guess stealth is useless') than for player parties.

Its best use (for common player situations) would be as a safety check when stepping into a house/lair, to see if you're safe or if there is anyone around (and where), but again, we run into GM interpretation meaning that you might not know if the three signals from upstairs are people... or mice in the walls.

When other races offer concrete benefits like d12 damage reduction, movement speed increase, better mental saves, avoid being dropped to 0hp, extra spells for casters... tremorsense as the uniquely dwarf-defining feature just doesn't stack up. Getting +1hp/level is okay, but you could just be a human and pick up Tough with your extra feat for twice the effect (and this racial also has the weird effect that dwarves are better for small hitdie classes, like wizards).

Dwarves aren't the worst (now that they get 30ft movement), because Dragonborn and Tieflings also exist in the same design realm of resistance+ribbons (Dragonborn flight solving a common melee problem would be amazing... if it wasn't just once a day), but dwarves are not any stronger than they were in 2014 PHB (where they at least had the option of getting +2str +2con to start with).