The Haka - Ka Mate v Kapo o Pango (sp?)

Sidekick · Aug 14, 2006

So hello there Enworlders. With the Trinations going so swimmingly I thought I'd ask about other Kiwi's (and other people who know about the Haka) opinions.

How do you feel about the new Haka?

Too violent? Do you want to only use the traditional one?

Anyway, while I personally prefer Ka Mate, I do quite like the new one, espeically when the other team or their supporters try to ignore/jeer it. History shows that the team that either insults, ignores or tries to neturalise the Haka ends up losing - often by record margins.

Tis' best to stand there and take it like a man...

Iku Rex · Aug 14, 2006

(Sorry. I've been waiting for a chance to use that for a while now.)

Dioltach · Aug 14, 2006

Not a Kiwi, but a rugby-loving Brit. I love the haka, but I'm a bit confused. I often hear the argument that it's become a rugby tradition, which I suppose it has. So why update it? Is the Ka Mate outdated? Does the new haka express modern sentiments better? If so, is it still traditional?

As an aside, I still like the idea of opposing the haka with another tradition: the Irish could do a riverdance thing, and the English could try morris dancing. And would the All Blacks 'stand and face it like men' if the Scots started tossing cabers?

Sidekick · Aug 14, 2006

Old v New. Well the original Haka is actually froma specific Iwi from th lower North Island (kiwiw's correct me if I'm wrong - the details are intentionally hazy).

The storey goes that a Chief and his warriors sailed down to the canterbury area, sacked and pillaged a local Hapu/iwi killing almost everyone. Some other locals turned up and routed them. The chief ran and hid, then when he wasn't discovered he jumped up and did the Ka Mate Haka.

So its always been a little bit contentious with some South Island Maori.

I guess that the ABs wanted something new that was still traditional and show-cased native NZ culture, but without the internal sensitivities that goes with Ka MAte. Honestly I dunno thought - thats a guess.

Dont' get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with people doing their own tradition.

I was refering to situations like when the English (I think) advanced on the All Blacks were doing the Haka and trying to scare the ABs the two teams ended up nose to nose by the end of it.

The other guys lost BIG time.

Or another time when the opposition completely ignored it and went and passed the ball around in their own try area. again a record loss. Its about respect, or should I say not dis-resecting the Haka.

As a team if you Disrespect the Haka - well do it at your own peril.

The stats show, that if you show the Haka respect & then decide to do your own thing (ie the Aussies and Waltzing matilda) then more power to ya.

As for morris dancing hmm I can't really see that pumping your boys u p(gods knows they need it though).

And CAbre tossing, its one thing to have some guys shout a war chant at you, another for them to throw swords...

Or you could do what the South African team did. Get someone to poison the opposion the night before. (We'll never forget that 95 final! NEVER).

just jokes

Boddha · Aug 14, 2006

Sidekick said:
....And CAbre tossing, its one thing to have some guys shout a war chant at you, another for them to throw swords...

The caber toss uses big poles, not swords, but still not something you want thrown at you.

http://www.campbellgames.com/athletics.htm

amethal · Aug 16, 2006

Dioltach said:
And would the All Blacks 'stand and face it like men' if the Scots started tossing cabers?

I think fifteen Scottish rugby players simultaneously trying to play the bag pipes would strike terror into the hearts of any rugby team.

Sandain · Aug 17, 2006

I really dislike the new Haka, and the throat slitting gesture is something recognisable throughout the entire world - a symbol of the cutting edge of sport or whatever they claimed is utter bullpucky. And I dont like when they dont jump up at the end.

Rugby is a traditional game, and I think we should use the traditional haka.

Sidekick · Aug 17, 2006

Sandain - yay! A kiwi posted their opinion.

I have to say I like the new haka, but I do prefer Ka Mate more (the chills up my spine are much bigger).

And yeah - what is up with the lack of jumping? they don't even seem to do it much with the traditional one either...

Bring back the jumping I say

Imruphel · Aug 19, 2006

I would prefer that the old one be brought back. As mentioned above, a tradition isn't a tradition if it's changed.

Anyway, the Kiwis changed the new one slightly tonight to adjust the throat-slitting gesture. Good win for them, too... but the Wallabies seem to be getting better (thankfully!). I can't wait for next year's World Cup.