Cyberdrake
First Post
There's a new article called "Campaign Control: Keeping Them on a Leash" that helps Game Masters to keep the players in the plotted area while keeping the illusion of freedom to the players.
Keeping control of your game while keeping illusion of liberty
- Thread starter Cyberdrake
- Start date
I'll be honest. I skipped the middle few pages of the article.
I gotta say though, as a player, if a GM said to me, "Hey, I know you guys want to go there, but there's stuff there that needs to be prepped, I haven't prepped it, and I don't want to run it on the fly," I would be fine with that. The players can't make the GM run encounters he doesn't want to run, but by the same token, the GM shouldn't be forcing PC's into encounters they have no interest in. The group has to work together.
I think it is almost always better to be honest with the players. I think its good to get their imput in what they want their characters to do, and I think its good to work together with them on where the game goes. If a GM is running a module, I know that the game will take place in the module. He doesn't need to surround the module with impassable mountains to keep me there. But a GM who says, "You can go anywhere and do anything you want," and then surrounds us with impassable mountains is basically lying to us about the concept of the game.
I gotta say though, as a player, if a GM said to me, "Hey, I know you guys want to go there, but there's stuff there that needs to be prepped, I haven't prepped it, and I don't want to run it on the fly," I would be fine with that. The players can't make the GM run encounters he doesn't want to run, but by the same token, the GM shouldn't be forcing PC's into encounters they have no interest in. The group has to work together.
I disagree strongly. Once players realize that the decisions their characters make have no impact on the storyline of the game, they lose interest. If every time the players want to do something different they are met with chasms, avalanches, quarantined zones, traps that damage them and force them back to "safe zones" or being captured, they're going to realize that the choices they make have no impact on what they'll be doing (other than chosing something the GM doesn't like means they'll be dealing with chasms and avalanches). When players realize that the choices they make have no impact on the game, they lose interest in making choices. And aside from rolling dice and making tactical decisions, making choices is playing your character.
I think it is almost always better to be honest with the players. I think its good to get their imput in what they want their characters to do, and I think its good to work together with them on where the game goes. If a GM is running a module, I know that the game will take place in the module. He doesn't need to surround the module with impassable mountains to keep me there. But a GM who says, "You can go anywhere and do anything you want," and then surrounds us with impassable mountains is basically lying to us about the concept of the game.
Wow, I disagree with just about everything in the article. I have no problem with a GM saying "Sorry, I didn't think you guys would go that way, so I didn't prep for that. Would you mind following this other lead and I'll have this one ready for you next session." That's the kind of thing friends who trust each other should always be able to do.
Likewise, I have no problem if a GM says "You guys have completely missed the path on this one. Do you want a hint to get back on track, or do you just want to continue as is?" Sometimes as players we get it completely wrong and we want a hint so we can succeed at our goal - wandering around session after session only to find out that we were completely off-track the whole time and the GM just let us wander...no thanks.
As for the author's "good" methods - Ouch! Many are classic railroading techniques that I'd never put up with for long. If used very, very sparingly, I can accept most of them, but some should never be used. For example, "Have the PC captured by monsters. Huh? Most players I know absolutely *hate* having their characters defeated by GM fiat. And trust me, players can tell when the GM pre-ordains the result of an encounter.
"And remember, the importance for your player is not to have total freedom in your world but have the illusion of it. As long as they think they can move freely and that their characters face obstacles when going out of the way instead of being the players that faces the limit, they will enjoy their game."
No, the importance for your players is that they can make meaningful choices. Meaningful isn't an illusion.
Likewise, I have no problem if a GM says "You guys have completely missed the path on this one. Do you want a hint to get back on track, or do you just want to continue as is?" Sometimes as players we get it completely wrong and we want a hint so we can succeed at our goal - wandering around session after session only to find out that we were completely off-track the whole time and the GM just let us wander...no thanks.
As for the author's "good" methods - Ouch! Many are classic railroading techniques that I'd never put up with for long. If used very, very sparingly, I can accept most of them, but some should never be used. For example, "Have the PC captured by monsters. Huh? Most players I know absolutely *hate* having their characters defeated by GM fiat. And trust me, players can tell when the GM pre-ordains the result of an encounter.
"And remember, the importance for your player is not to have total freedom in your world but have the illusion of it. As long as they think they can move freely and that their characters face obstacles when going out of the way instead of being the players that faces the limit, they will enjoy their game."
No, the importance for your players is that they can make meaningful choices. Meaningful isn't an illusion.
shilsen
Adventurer
As with the earlier posters, my personal playstyle (as both DM and player) disagrees a lot with the article. As a player, I think it's usually quite easy to work out when a DM is trying to stop you from taking things where he isn't prepared to go. And while I agree that complete freedom is both impossible in the game and may be less desirable in some (an adventure path campaign, for example) than others, I personally prefer to play in games where my PC has a lot of freedom and run ones where PCs have a lot of it too.
I'm currently running an Eberron campaign which is in its 3rd year and just completed 70 sessions, and there's no way the players and I would have got as much satisfaction from it if we weren't all aware that they have a huge amount of freedom and that the campaign emerges from their meaningful choices. Even if that choice includes things like the PCs deciding that they were getting into too much trouble and taking a ship to a completely different continent. Rather than making up complications because I couldn't deal with it, I rolled with it and their choice (both the choice of what they did and choice of what they ignored) provided us with meaningful and interesting material for the next 20 sessions.
I'm currently running an Eberron campaign which is in its 3rd year and just completed 70 sessions, and there's no way the players and I would have got as much satisfaction from it if we weren't all aware that they have a huge amount of freedom and that the campaign emerges from their meaningful choices. Even if that choice includes things like the PCs deciding that they were getting into too much trouble and taking a ship to a completely different continent. Rather than making up complications because I couldn't deal with it, I rolled with it and their choice (both the choice of what they did and choice of what they ignored) provided us with meaningful and interesting material for the next 20 sessions.
This DM wouldn't last a minute with my gaming group. Dense forests, treacherous swamps, haunted castles and heavily guarded fortresses? Those are crying out for adventurers to try their luck! The author might as well have said, "A pile of gold and magical items is an effective deterrent to exploration." 
Scurvy_Platypus
Explorer
I'd politely leave his game, and never play with him as a GM again.
I realize some people like to do the kind of stuff he advocates, and it probably even works for some people too. But I won't put up with it. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from GMs 10 or more years ago, and it's always been apparent when a GM tries to do this sort of thing. I don't like being lied to and these days I've got much better things to with my time than be an animated puppet for the GM.
I realize some people like to do the kind of stuff he advocates, and it probably even works for some people too. But I won't put up with it. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from GMs 10 or more years ago, and it's always been apparent when a GM tries to do this sort of thing. I don't like being lied to and these days I've got much better things to with my time than be an animated puppet for the GM.
I disagree with the article advice that it's better to railroad than say "sorry I haven't prepped that yet", though I think winging it is usually the best option of all. 3e can be hard to wing though; with eg 1e or C&C all I need is a rough map and some random encounter tables.
The advice on terrain limitations I think can be useful when setting up a campaign. You can create a map with features that obviously delimit the campaign area. Eg, see my Duskmoon Hills campaign map (may require yahoogroup subscription):
http://games.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Eamaps/photos/view/faf8?b=1&m=f&o=0
The campaign area is bounded to the south by a swamp and large lake, to the east by an enchanted forest and mountains, to the north by mountains and lake, to the west by another forest and an expansive plain. None of these are impossible to cross but they create natural boundaries to the adventure area.
The advice on terrain limitations I think can be useful when setting up a campaign. You can create a map with features that obviously delimit the campaign area. Eg, see my Duskmoon Hills campaign map (may require yahoogroup subscription):
http://games.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Eamaps/photos/view/faf8?b=1&m=f&o=0
The campaign area is bounded to the south by a swamp and large lake, to the east by an enchanted forest and mountains, to the north by mountains and lake, to the west by another forest and an expansive plain. None of these are impossible to cross but they create natural boundaries to the adventure area.
I think it's far better to be honest and state when you haven't prepared something than use heavy-handed railroading.
Before using the measures there I'd use positive options to steer the party anyway - instead of railroading by having a chasm west, a mountain south and a swamp east, make it more appealing to head north. Hire the party as escorts, have something happening to the north, etc.
Of course, winging it is better.
Also, geographical control is often not really a problem. Tips for DMs how to handle it when their players suddenly want to build up a trading house, or found a nation, or pledge their swords to a holy war instead of acting like the usual mercenary adventurers running after the next treasure might be more important than working out how to control their geographical choices (of which the easiest way often is to simply move the prepared location to where the party is going.)
Before using the measures there I'd use positive options to steer the party anyway - instead of railroading by having a chasm west, a mountain south and a swamp east, make it more appealing to head north. Hire the party as escorts, have something happening to the north, etc.
Of course, winging it is better.
Also, geographical control is often not really a problem. Tips for DMs how to handle it when their players suddenly want to build up a trading house, or found a nation, or pledge their swords to a holy war instead of acting like the usual mercenary adventurers running after the next treasure might be more important than working out how to control their geographical choices (of which the easiest way often is to simply move the prepared location to where the party is going.)
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