Need help with Loot Division

hopeless said:

*Snippity explained a selfish wizard character*

Anybody else experienced this?

Click to expand...

Nope but if this happend depending on what character I was playing I might care or not, but at least one person in group if not the majority of the group would always care about this, in that case we explain in character why our characters think this is wrong and take whatever actions seem appropriate, get rid of the PC/kill him would be common ones

Mazlyn said:

New 4e party with veteran RPG players. We need a "fairer" system of dividing loot at the end of missions. One that gets items to the right PCs but still allows some freedom of choice. I just wondered what systems others used.

Our current system is "strict" order. We rolled for order at the outset of the campaign and with each pick, your name goes to the bottom of the list. Great until an orb cames up and the wizzie is at the bottom. The fighter is now richer but the party is poorer.

Any suggestions appreciated! Thx!

Click to expand...

We run with "need over greed" with items-party vote over folks who both want the same item, with money evenly divided, anlong with any items sold-gems, magic items no one wants, etc....

Prevents things like fighter with a wizard item.

My god... I can't believe there are still people who fight over loot distribution.

You say your players are veterans? Then why is this even an issue? Veterans, IMO, should be the least likely to fight over loot and the most likely to simply give items to whomever they're appropriate to.

I find a lot of issues like this have more to do with the group dynamics and the individuals involved than it does with any sort of system. Play with reasonable, intelligent adults and not children who will bicker over unimportant things that nobody in their right mind would care about.

This thread reminds me of WoW. The amount of times I've walked away from loot because of some whiny little turd who puts a priority on loot above friendships or relationships in game, I've lost count. In fact, I left my last guild because of two particular people who did just this. Ironically, they claimed I was being a loot whore, even though I'd passed up every bit of loot from 25 man raids for the last two months of regular raiding and was given loot priority by the GM *because* I kept passing loot to everyone else (who I felt needed it more than I did).

My groups tended to just give loot to whoever would benefit from it the most. Since D&D is a team based game what's good for the team is good for everyone so there was no need for infighting. Now the fact that I tended to be decently respected in these groups helped smooth any conflicts that arose out. The fact I normally play spell casters and have less use for magic items because of this also helped since I could act as a neutral third party.

I have to admit that I am VERY surprised at the number of players responding "just give it to the PC who needs it" and then alluding to the "veteran" status of our players with some irony as if we just fell to earth from some distant sun! Have you truly NEVER had a dispute over spoils in your RPG careers? If so, my hat is off to you. Rest assured, I am a veteran gamer and RPG player (though I tend to emphasize the "gamer" part over the "role" part.) Having owned a game store and attended too many cons to count I have played in many sessions where the distribution of loot was at the very least a discussion and, at times, a cause of some debate. If you have not had this experience then I suggest you give it a try! It is a wonderful exercise of your interpersonal relationship skills and sometimes even a little demonstration of crisis management!

This still leaves my original issue, for which I was merely curious as to how other "veteran" players (if you are on this board your interest and level must be better than "novice") have or would deal with the issue. So maybe I’m asking the question the wrong way…If it’s obvious to you who gets it when the item is clearly class specific(which all of my henchman would argue with), what do you do in your groups if the item is say (a little old school here) a +3 Amulet of Protection or something similar that all party members could benefit from?

Do all of you "peace, light, and love" folks just sing a chorus of Kumbaya, bring together the Peoples Council and determine which PC has "greatest need?"

Okay, just a little fascicious there in that last bit.

(And for those of you about to respond "roll for it" then your faith in Lady Luck has not been so sorely tested as mine! Wanna' got to Vegas?!)

Mazlyn said:

If it’s obvious to you who gets it when the item is clearly class specific(which all of my henchman would argue with), what do you do in your groups if the item is say (a little old school here) a +3 Amulet of Protection or something similar that all party members could benefit from?

Click to expand...

I've been in lots of groups as well. But I also have zero tolerance for this sort of behaviour. Since I usually don't relinquish control of the group (I organise the group and DM and host the game), people who bicker about something as inane as loot in a game, I kick out.

If I don't have control of the group and find that the group bickers over something as inane as loot in a game, I leave. It's not that hard to find another group of people who aren't as childish. I'm old enough that I just don't have the time or patience for such behaviour in people who are supposed to be my peers.

So my advice is that if loot distribution is enough of a problem to cause raised voices or even disgruntlement or selfishness, then you should find another group.

Obviously for whatever reason that's not the answer you're looking for, so the answer I will give to your original question is, "Whoever can benefit the most from the item should get it."

But then, that kind of thinking also requires a modicum of fairness and selflessness which I am thinking your group lacks.

Ginnel said:

In my opinion there should never ever be an organised loot sharing mechanic that is constructed outside of the gameworld.

Any loot sharing method should always be conceived in character in game.

Click to expand...

Ditto. I think loot division is a vital part of group dynamic where they get to see how much they trust each other, as well as think about the wll-being of the group over their own benefit.

A fighter will get a couple skills with a +2 int boost, but that item obviously benefits the wiz the most, and for the benefit of the team, should go to the wiz.

I say treat magic items like the game ball, where the MVP of each battle gets first dibs. Because he/she was the most instrumental part of the loot accumulation, t the victor goes the spoils.

was_fired said:

My groups tended to just give loot to whoever would benefit from it the most. Since D&D is a team based game what's good for the team is good for everyone so there was no need for infighting.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I was going to say. How we've been doing it in our group is giving the items that are obviously good for one PC to that PC. If there are items remaining that anyone could benefit from then we try to parcel them out evenly, taking into account the items that were already given out. We don't really take the GP value into account, just the usefulness of the item to the people who want it. For the example of a +3 Amulet of Protection, we'd probably give it to the person with the lowest AC (assuming it's an AC-boosting item... couldn't find "amulet of protection" in the SRD) who hadn't already got an item. If there was somebody who was really lacking in AC and needed it, they might get the amulet even if they already got another item. Everything else gets liquefied and the cash is split evenly.

I play with random people online, and some people like this method less than others. My ideal system would be the idea that all of the equipment in the party is treated as property of the party, not of the individual characters. If you sell something because you got a better item, the proceeds get split among the whole party instead of just going to the person who sold it. If somebody wants to buy a shiny new item that they really need but they're a few GP short then others in the party will chip in with their own GP. This is how my character usually behaves in-game. What's best for the party is what's best for me.

No one has addressed several of his or her questions.

1. What if their are more than one wizard or fighter and they both are equally bad or good WHAT THEN
2. The amulet was an example, if you have never heard of a +3 amulet of protection, them you have not played very long, example was for general items that any body can use.
3. I agree with him every group i have played in {for the record i have been a player for 23 years} there was always a discussion on magic items picks.
4. Also their are always stronger personality's that might run roughshod over some of other players.

I dont have all the answers but this thinking that 6 or 7 real people are just going magically be best friends and never try and look out for their own character not to mention his henchman is VERY NAIVE

Meanwhile...back at the topic

Wow. So the general advice is to discard the crew, take my ball and bat and go home, eh? Why is it that it seems to me the more mature behavior is to work through a minor difficulty such as the one presented and persevere onward to enjoy the game? Never get confused. My goal as a gamer at all times is to preserve the game and, as with all games, the rules (loot or other) are the shared reality that allow us our escapist fun. I am not eager (though not unwilling) to merely discard players on a whim or, as some would suggest, or quit in self-righteous indignation when they do not meet my "ideal."

If you run your groups in such a draconian fashion, how do you handle other players like yourself? Did you ever pause to think what you might be missing by not allowing yourself to be challenged by equal or better minds? My fellow party members have made valid points with regards to the loot system. Some believe it is their right to pick based on their "need" and others, like myself, feel a certain loyalty to the party. They are not bad players, quite the contrary, as our DM would be the first to note. These PCs use their adventure gains to fund outside the party enterprises that are one of the driving components of a good campaign!

Moreover, when did it become noble to just throw up our hands, dissolve the party and continue until we find 4-5 spineless sheep with which to play? How do you get through a game of Settlers of Catan? How long do you allow a player to ponder his turn in Scrabble before you judge them "unfit" and put away the game? Gaming presents many minor interpersonal challenges which need resolution…and it strikes me that some of you have either put your fingers in your ears and sang "la, la, la" or have become the thing which you despise…a kind of "my-way-or-the-highway" despot. As an adult gamer I have often been presented with situations where a bit of tact and ingenuity have saved a session’s enjoyment for all involved. Had I subscribed to the theories of several posters herein, I would have bitter feelings and restraining orders in place of those pleasant memories.

It was my intent to see what others had worked out in regards to this matter. I accept the admonishment of many of you that we "are not worthy". Fine. Your piece is said and your position clear. Thank you kindly for your input. However, since you have no further insight to offer in this regard, your experience is less valid. Not wrong mind you…just not applicable. I appeal to any other "non-worthy" gamers who have actually had to deal with the issue at hand to offer suggestions.