Need help with Loot Division

[Mazlyn]

Still on for system ideas...

As to a better system. I guess I should list the things I want from the system.

Overal fairness- If you go, you get an equal share.
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Party improvement - the DM is only giving away so many items. We cant afford to have them dissapear into pocketbooks and henchmen.
PCs getting appropriate items - related to above
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Our current system, quoted from our campaign wiki…

"Each member has an "account." This account tracks the value of all item picks. At each dispersal meeting an order based on the lowest values first will be created. This list will then be run through until all items from the current batch have been chosen. Any items not picked will be liquidated and the gold divided evenly among the members.
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Problems that have to be considered:
> What items go on the "pick" list. (Consumables, one-use, named non-magic)
> Exceptional Items (Artifacts, High GP)
> Group level-appropriate power items "bleeding" out of the group.
> PCs that don’t play often, getting behind in the "gold count" then coming in at an important moment and selecting a premium item."
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This system really only addresses the "fairness" point (minus participation) so I am looking for ideas. Many of the ideas above (special thanks to Asmor, Lanefan, and Balgus) have been tossed around.

One of our old 2e/3e systems involved a variation on the Asmor suggestion where we took all items (DM valued) and treasure and tallied the GP value. Divide by the members and this was your share. The pick order was a static, rotation. When you picked an item, its value went against your theoretical "share". This system doesn’t work as well in 4e because the portion of a module’s trove in cash GP has declined.

We next entertained a DKP-like system where you get points for each session you attend and pick order is determined by those points. Another variation has us spending these DKP for the treasure by assigning the DKP value proportionally to any trove.
You get the idea. Others?

 

[carmachu]

Having owned a game store and attended too many cons to count I have played in many sessions where the distribution of loot was at the very least a discussion and, at times, a cause of some debate.

Now your confusing how a steady group divides loot, from a RPGA event divides loot.

Thats two VERY different experiences. MY RPGA days, I hated how rolling off, even with a couple friends at the table to help, was handled. I knew people with pages of magic items....ugh.

This still leaves my original issue, for which I was merely curious as to how other "veteran" players (if you are on this board your interest and level must be better than "novice") have or would deal with the issue. So maybe I’m asking the question the wrong way…If it’s obvious to you who gets it when the item is clearly class specific(which all of my henchman would argue with), what do you do in your groups if the item is say (a little old school here) a +3 Amulet of Protection or something similar that all party members could benefit from?

Do all of you "peace, light, and love" folks just sing a chorus of Kumbaya, bring together the Peoples Council and determine which PC has "greatest need?"

Okay, just a little fascicious there in that last bit.

WOw, you ask for advise and get all cranky when you get it, and its not quite to your liking. Perhaps you shouldnt ask for it then.

But to your question: there's a company charter. In regards of a very hot item like that, there is a ledger that details who has what. If the mage and the rouge and the bard all want it, we check the ledger. Oh gee, turns out that the mage and the bard all have gotten more then a few items, and GP value of them are pretty high, while the rouge's total GP value of items is the lowest....rouge gets it, subject to party vote(6 players).

Its a team item, we're all adults and veterans. Whoever its MOST going to benefit for our long term survival is how we look at it. As a business, and investing in each other is how its handled.

 

[carmachu]

No has addressed several of his or her questions.

1. What if their are more than one wizard or fighter and they both are equally bad or good WHAT THEN

We keep a ledger tally of who has what, and teh value. So in teh case of a magic amulet and two wizards....and both want it, the ledger is checked. If wizard B has 12,500 gp's worth of magic items(not counting consumables) and wizard A has 10,100 gps worth of items....Wizard A gets it.

 

[Asmor]

Just as an idea for if you want to do the running tally system, and how to address people who play more often than others...

At the end of the session, zero out the tally, so that you only keep track of how far ahead people are from the lowest person.

Example, at the end of the session, the tally looks like this:

Alice: 5,500 GP
Bob: 5,000 GP
Charlie: 6,000 GP
Dan: 8,000 GP

For bookkeeping for next session, you zero that out by subtracting 5,000 GP from everyone. Next session, Eve joins the party. Here's what the books look like at the beginning of the session:

Alice: 500 GP
Bob: 0 GP
Charlie: 1,000 GP
Dan: 3,000 GP
Eve: 0 GP

 

[Airon Grimshed]

We keep a ledger tally of who has what, and teh value. So in teh case of a magic amulet and two wizards....and both want it, the ledger is checked. If wizard B has 12,500 gp's worth of magic items(not counting consumables) and wizard A has 10,100 gps worth of items....Wizard A gets it.

Ya thats best plan. I would agree with that 100%. That would be my answer as well.

 

[jensun]

Moreover, when did it become noble to just throw up our hands, dissolve the party and continue until we find 4-5 spineless sheep with which to play?

I generally find that when asking for advice it probably isnt that productive to insult people or their play styles.

If you want some practical advise about how to organise things as a GM then you can use the quest system. I tend to provide players with personal quests as well as overall group quests which they are free to act on or ignore. Those personal quests are generally completed as part of the rest of the game but I am able to seed them with items which are specifically useful for that player.

That or you play in a group which is mature enough not to get bent out of shape about who gets which bit of imaginary loot.

 

[carmachu]

Ya thats best plan. I would agree with that 100%. That would be my answer as well.

Yeah. Its starts with "needs over greed" but also keeping track of how much everyone has. Our party(of 6) had to force the rouge to take 3 or so items(magic shortsword, cloak of resistance, ring of protection+1) recently because he was so far behind on items. He just kept declining.

Now as an adendum, all items belong to the "company" as a whole, and as long as your a memeber their yours. if you want them or your character wants out, you can buy them from the company in hard coin. If not they come back to the party as a whole.

Not that anyone wants to leave the party, but its all in our charter so its all nice and legal. Even the small house we as a party own is split 6 ways.

 

[El Mahdi]

This is what almost every group I've been in or DM'd used:

1. Items go to the character most able to use it, based on: class, race, synergy with other items, feats, powers, etc.

2. If two or more characters could use the item, roll for it (i.e. highest wins).

3. If nobody can use it, either put it in storage (in the groups secret hideout) or sell it.

4. Monetary treasure (gems, coins, art items, etc.) is split evenly between the players in the group.

5. Players that weren't present when the items or loot was found have no claim to it (unless the group decides otherwise).

6. Any stalemates or inability to come to a decision are arbitrated or decided by the DM (you know best where items should go based on your campaign anyways).

If these ideas don't help your group, just start introducing a generous amount of cursed items. The greedy ones will bear the brunt of the curses (not to mention the fun you'll have watching them squirm).

 

[Asmor]

If these ideas don't help your group, just start introducing a generous amount of cursed items. The greedy ones will bear the brunt of the curses (not to mention the fun you'll have watching them squirm).

That might actually exacerbate the problem. Purely hypothetical:

Suppose the system expects you to have 10 magic items. Bob and Tim get 30 items; Bob gets 10, but greedy Tim takes the other 20. They still both have the expected number of magic items, at least, so Bob isn't particularly gimped.

Now, suppose half those items are cursed. Now Bob only has 5 items, while Tim has 10. Tim's still okay, but Bob's up a river with a cursed paddle.

 

[Oni]

DKP?

Seriously I've never played with a group where it didn't go something like this. Find loot. Anyone wants to use something speaks up, if there is more than one claim then usually there is some gentle urging by the group based on need or all things being equal dicing for the item if you already got something no rolling. Anything left over easily split is split on the spot, anything not easily split would be sold then split later equally among everyone(or hung onto as a group item if peopel thought it might be handy later). I have a hard time imagining anything more than this being necessary and actually I'm not sure I'd be comfortable playing with a group where it was.