What is the current state of the Battlemind?

I was a guest player in a friend's campaign last night (he's running Scales of War) and I decided to try out a Battlemind for the first time (no one in my groups has played any psionic characters except the monk). We were using the errata'd version, so Blurred Step seemed relatively effective in maintaining threatening position (though of course, sometimes forced decisions where I had to be abandon one mark to maintain another--the infamous shift and charge was never really possible, due to our strong two defender line and smart positioning in the back). Speed of Thought was very nice, allowing me to get some great positioning before the first attacks were made. Twisted Eye and Augmented Whirling Defense both proved very useful. All in all, I felt like I was just as effective as the party's Fighter. At 4th level, I feel like it's mechanically peachy--the biggest weakness in my eyes is that it has no clear roleplaying archetype.

I've seen a lot of posts here and elsewhere calling the Battlemind "the weakest class" and calling into question its ability to do its job, but it seems like many of those focus especially on the pre-errata Blurred Step. What does everyone (especially those playing Battleminds, and those who refuse to) think the state of the Battlemind is post-errata?

I think they're decent in their own way, but I thought that pre-errata too.

I do think their mark/punish mechanic takes a bit to get used to. It's sort of in-between the swordmage's "mark-and-forget" and the paladin's "mano-el-mano", in that there's a little bit of range and multi-marking ability, but you really need to stick close to foes for it to be effective.

I like that the utility powers are vaguely Monk-like, and Speed of Thought is crazy awesome.

The fluff is weird. In my head, I've refluffed them as something like "defender monks", even though that doesn't really fit with the heavy armor, but sometimes I just pretend they're wearing really heavy robes or something.

darkadelphia said:

--the biggest weakness in my eyes is that it has no clear roleplaying archetype.

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I haven't had a chance to play a Battlemind yet, nor have I seen on in action, so I can't really comment.

I would however be interested in you fleshing out you statement about roleplaying archetypes... 'cause I'm not really sure what you mean.

For me my issue is the fluff and the name. I hate the compound names, Battlemind... why name it that? Because it uses its mind to do battle of course... ugh...

The enemy can usually still move + charge and suffer an OA, which requires the BM to spend a feat on Melee training or else the monster will likely take the OA every time.

I also think they don't really have a good niche. They're kind of sticky, but not as sticky as a fighter. They can mark at range, but lack the ability to enforce it, so SM is better. They are tough, but not as tough as most wardens. They lack a strong secondary power like the paladin (who's mark also punishes at range). They just seem second best at everything.

1) Fighter - super sticky
2) Swordmage - mark and forget, can engage 1 foe while marked another
3) Warden - Unkillable (almost)
4) Paladin - mark works at any range and a bit of leader
5) Battlemind - ???

Mort_Q said:

I haven't had a chance to play a Battlemind yet, nor have I seen on in action, so I can't really comment.

I would however be interested in you fleshing out you statement about roleplaying archetypes... 'cause I'm not really sure what you mean.

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Well, this may just expose my limited engagement with certain types of fiction, but most of the existing classes have some sort of real world or fictional archetype to which they appeal. The cleric and the paladin have clear connection to romanticized images of the crusades. The fighter is the pure brawn of heroic figures like Beowulf. The wizard or the sorcerer is someone like Merlin, etc. There's not really an analogue for the guy with psychic powers who wears lots of armor.

Which is not to say that it's absolutely necessary--D&D has created archetypes and tropes of its own (or at least popularized them). In some ways, it might even be liberating, since, for my group at least, I am taking limited fluff and defining what a Battlemind is for our group and our campaign.

I got a chance to play a friend's Dwarf 17 Battlemind a few days ago. That guy is godly. At first I thought their mark retribution was too weak, and it is, but they don't really need it. Melee training: CON is definitely a feat tax though. The battlemind does much less damage than the fighter, but they actually feel like a stronger defender because they're so much tougher and exert much more control over the enemies they are adjacent to.

Mostly due to hideously broken low level Battlemind powers.

Spectral Legion, level 3 at-will, you get the following with augment 1: 1[W]+[CON] damage, the target grants CA to all adjacent allies, and takes a -[CHA] penalty to all melee and close attacks until the end of your next turn. At level 17 this guy had a +6 CON and a +5 CHA. At level 17 he has 9 power points, so you can pretty much use that power as an at-will. -5 to all melee and close attacks is even better than a daze, plus you get the auto-grant CA rider too.

And then there's Lightning Rush, level 7 at-will immediate interrupt. It triggers when an enemy within 5 of squares of you targets an ally with attack. Then you move adjacent to the enemy, smack them with 1[W]+[CON], and you lose the next standard action your turn. Nifty, but nothing too broken there. The thing is, with Augment 2, the power becomes 2[W]+[CON], and you become the target of the triggering attack. Which is HUGE against enemies with AoEs; not only is this power really good on its own, if you know the enemy is going to AoE you can often make the enemy AOE nuke themselves and their allies instead of your team. And the nastiest part? It's an interrupt, so if the enemy *does* use an area attack, or a ranged attack, you get a free OA against the opponent.

Looking ahead at the epic tier powers, I don't see replacing either one of those ever. And Battleminds can only keep 3 at-will powers at any given time, so there's not a whole lot of room for growth.

Doesn't change the fact they're fun though. =P

darkadelphia said:

At 4th level, I feel like it's mechanically peachy--the biggest weakness in my eyes is that it has no clear roleplaying archetype.

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I haven't played a battlemind, but FWIW I think of them as Jedi knights (that actually wear armor). Psionics is the Force.

darkadelphia said:

The biggest weakness in my eyes is that it has no clear roleplaying archetype.

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My game world has long had a water-breathing race well known for its psychometabolic powers. Their melee warriors are called "thorn fighters" and they use their own bones to create armor and weapons. (I think there is also a Naruto ninja with this power.) With inherent bonuses, the Battlemind looks like it handles this "fast heavy defender" re-fluff fairly well.

-KS

renau1g said:

I also think they don't really have a good niche. They're kind of sticky, but not as sticky as a fighter. They can mark at range, but lack the ability to enforce it, so SM is better. They are tough, but not as tough as most wardens. They lack a strong secondary power like the paladin (who's mark also punishes at range). They just seem second best at everything.

1) Fighter - super sticky
2) Swordmage - mark and forget, can engage 1 foe while marked another
3) Warden - Unkillable (almost)
4) Paladin - mark works at any range and a bit of leader
5) Battlemind - ???

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I think the Battlemind, for better or for worse, has more of it's "defenderness" tied up in class powers, like the aforementioned Lightning Rush. There are also many utility powers that are basically "follow the mark". So to me, the Battlemind's niche is that rather than making the monsters stick to them like a Fighter, the Battlemind sticks to the monsters. Blurred Step is only one part of this. This is a little like Assault Swordmages, except rather than "mark, forget, and sometime later teleport halfway across the battlefield for punishment", it's more like "mark and stick like glue for unavoidable punishment".

The Battlemind is the guy you just can't seem to get away from; whenever you turn around to try to do something else they're already up in your face.

Yeah, that makes sense, but it kinda sucks that you must wait until higher levels to develop that, where most of the other defenders get it to start.