Class Design Concepts

Wizards of the Coast · Nov 26, 2012

You've seen the monk now, hopefully, and you've played a bit with expertise dice. But how do weapons, spells, and abilities intersect in a class such as the paladin? Mike explores whacking things, blowing things up with magic, and getting things done in this week's column.

Read Class Design Concepts on D&D Insider here!

RACER_X?HAHAHA · Nov 26, 2012

Hmmm, this sounds good to me. I had been sort of dour about the prospects of this edition.

Li Shenron · Nov 26, 2012

Sounds good enough to me too...

I am still not so sure that giving ED/martial damage bonus to all martial classes is a good idea, because then the "damage bloat" is pretty much an unavoidable feature of the whole game. Was it only for the Fighter, it would mean that Fighters would be e.g. twice as fast at dropping monsters in combat, less than having an extra PC in the party (and only in combat), but this wouldn't mean a generalized damage bloat.

Another sentence that left me with doubts is the one about "standardizing spellcasting". If this means they're studying a way to make multiclassing work for spellcasters, then good. Otherwise I really really hope it doesn't mean that they're considering something as stupidly rigid as siloing spells into "combat", "utilities" and such.

Everything else sounds fine. Also good that Mearls keeps reminding us that some stuff in the playtest is purposefully thrown at us as an experiment, since playtest is the best (only?) opportunity to really try these innovative ideas in large numbers. When we see stuff change heavily between playtest packets, let's try to keep in mind that it might be even that the previous one worked so well that they can "shelf" it for a while and try something totally different in the meantime (while if it worked only partially, they cannot ditch it or approve it without first tweaking and retesting it).

RACER_X?HAHAHA · Nov 26, 2012

I think the context on spells points more towards the overall functioning of spells. They hinted that spells would be more effective if cast from a higher spell slot. If they continue with that premise they'd have to work on how you would increase the power of spells in other casting systems such as spell points. Or put simply, I believe they are standardizing how spells function to make it easier to swap out casting mechanics without having it break the game.

WhatGravitas · Nov 26, 2012

Article sounds good - how it will look in the end is another thing, of course, but I like that they're a) recognising that there's still a bit of work to be done, b) that they realise that they have the luxury of experimenting right now and c) that they're listening to feedback regarding expertise dice, maneuvers and skills.

Nikosandros · Nov 26, 2012

Yes, this article sounds encouraging. I'm really interested in what they are planning about skills.

Chris_Nightwing · Nov 26, 2012

Mike Mearls said:
We're exploring a similar dice-based mechanic that can contain the simplest expression of checks and bonuses while also covering special abilities that interact with checks and other abilities that aren't combat-only options. If you look at the monk's maneuvers beyond attacks—Step of the Wind is a good example—you can see how this system might look.

I maintain that expertise dice are an ugly way to include ascending damage and maneuvers. I remember early on in the playtest they did a column survey about the use of dice tricks, and it took me a little while to find it (http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/blog/2012/02/17/dice_tricks). Surveys were scored 1-5, from strongly disagree to strongly agree.

Dice tricks should be a part of D&D? Survey average: 3.0
Dice tricks are fun for occasional use but shouldn't be core? Survey average: 3.6
I prefer dice tricks to static modifiers? Survey average: 2.5

Now admittedly this was before playing with any specific mechanic, and it might be worth running this again, but my impression is that dice tricks, including rolling a dice to add to an effect, weren't favoured by the community.

I also find it deeply worrying that he thinks Step of the Wind is a *good* example of how non-expertise-dice-but-still-maneuver-dice might work. You won't know how far you can move until you roll a dice with this maneuver - it is.. questionable at best.

Chris_Nightwing · Nov 26, 2012

Oh, and is it me, or has there been a trend from columns that spell things out very clearly - design goals, here, what do you think of this mechanic type stuff - to completely vague generalities - we're tidying this bit up, and changing this bit, and let's mention everything in the game at some point?

Klaus · Nov 26, 2012

I'll just paste my comment from the article:

Instead of being hard-coded "alignment allegiances", I prefer if Paladins devotew themselves to a Virtue or a Vice (borrowing these from Essentials): Sacrifice, Valor, Tyranny, etc.

And chalk me up as someone who prefer the name Expertise Dice. People are already embracing the term, and even using "XD" as an abbreviation.